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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:08 pm 
***LIES!!!***
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ismloveyoubobbybrown wrote:
I think photogs and celebs have a mutually beneficial relationship, and it is okay for celebs to draw the line at their junk. Why should she HAVE to wear underwear if she is otherwise reasonably covered and the only way you could see something you shouldn't is if you are pointing a zoom lens right at her nethers at the exact moment she could, if she didn't move her legs just right, expose herself for a matter of seconds?


For the same reason a man should wear undergarments in the same kind of circumstance? When did it start becoming appropriate for people to wear clothing where such a thing could happen? Why do we force/expect female celebrities to appear in public constantly half-naked for them to be considered attractive and worth taking a photo of?


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:24 pm 
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What's wrong with nudity? Why are humans expected to be ashamed of their bodies?


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:28 pm 
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I don't think her dress made her "half naked" really. I wear less clothes than that all the time. And I would be mortified and livid if someone took a picture of some accidental nudity and sold it around without my permission.

And hey, maybe you think you've never accidentally exposed yourself - but chances are you probably have shown more than intended at some point and maybe the people around you didn't notice or didn't point it out or didn't take a picture of it to sell to a tabloid.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
When did it start becoming appropriate for people to wear clothing where such a thing could happen?


When we stopped blaming people for the shitty things other people do to them?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:01 pm 
***LIES!!!***
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I'm *not* blaming her for the shitty thing that happened to her (if the shitty thing is exclusively that she was photographed, that photograph was sold, and that a douchebag morning anchor called her out for it). But I am blaming our culture for creating this synergistic relationship between celebrity/photographers where something like this is not only likely to occur, but destined to occur. And I'm blaming the confounding fact of the constant sexualization of women's bodies that makes it not only normal for them to wear revealing clothing (that the media would loudly ridicule men for wearing in the same situation), but necessary for their careers. I can decry the shittiness of the photographer at the same time as saying the situation that she was in is *by itself* even with no photographer around to capture it an example of the comodification of women's bodies. Nudity in our culture is not contextless.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:28 pm 
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I thought this was really worth watching, but it can be triggering.

How Slut-shaming becomes Victim blaming.


Oh this should be in the Positivity Feminism thread...

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:24 am 
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Maybe it does but the original Jenna marbles vid belongs in here. I normally love her videos, but god damn does she not get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:48 am 
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That is such a shame. I guess I'd say that you shouldn't have had to be in the situation in your past to understand the situation and have some compassion.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:04 am 
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I didn't watch the Jenna Marbles video, because just the clip of her saying "Sluts of the World, make better choices!" was so infuriating, I physically gagged.

The problem with "slut shaming/victim blaming" is that if you're painting it as only sluts get date-raped every woman who gets dateraped is assumed to be a slut. And since there is no definition of what a slut is, its basically used to slam all women. Poss. trigger
Spoiler: show
I was date raped in jeans, tennis shoes and a sweater, while completely sober, going for pizza at 7pm. I spent so many years assuming it was my fault, because I shouldn't have gotten into a class-mate's car for a 5 minute drive down a brightly lit street, instead of that he shouldn't have made fun of me when I didn't want to get into his car, assured me he wasn't a rapist (!), and then locked the doors and drove off into a dangerous area and wouldn't let me get out of the car, and then raped me. I did a lot of crying and saying no, but apparently that wasn't clear enough. And all that guilt about being a slut (having never had sex or even really done more than kissing) made me not call the authorities or get help for myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:39 am 
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And thats what I mean, if she had been date raped, maybe she would understand but instead she has her perfect idea of the world where only women who make bad decisions get raped. We are human, we are going to make bad decisions, doesn't mean we should be violated. And that doesn't mean that every person who gets raped made a bad decision, but assuming that the outcome was their own fault isn't the way to go.

"You drank something someone gave you and they drugged you? Must've been your fault" "you went into a house of a friend and they raped you? Must've been your fault" "you trusted someone? Must've been your fault".

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:51 am 
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I don't know, sometimes I feel like its easier to victim-blame when you have been a victim because it's hard to not have feelings of "I shouldn't have done that" or "I was dumb, I was too drunk" etc. and when you feel that about yourself, extending it to other people is the next step. I feel it all the time about myself and struggle with not blaming myself constantly.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:07 pm 
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While talking to a married male co-worker about some random thing, he mentions that he didn’t have time to do laundry this weekend. Another male co-worker pipes up “why would you have to do laundry? That’s a pink job.” Are you forking kidding me? Do we still live in a time where women are required to do laundry only because they happen to have been born with a vagina? One simple comment made me lose all respect for that guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:47 pm 
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On Sunday I heard a girl in the pool shout to her father after throwing him a ball "i have a good arm don't I daddy? For a girl." I felt like covering my daughters ears and crying!


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Lately? The PPK. Some of these threads make me want to die in a fire, people.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Lately? The PPK. Some of these threads make me want to die in a fire, people.


There have been some iffy discussions of late.


I made myself feel pretty sad today when I realised that some of my own words and actions could have given others the impression that I condone some terrible acts committed against women. I've learned from it straight away.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:09 am 
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Oh fun! It was just explained to me that a comment which I and my friend both heard as implicative of sexual violence was "just a joke" and that it was "[our] choice to be offended by it"...but that we're "welcome to provide sources" to prove why it was offensive?

I don't understand why people want to defend their right to offend sexual assault survivors. Like, why is that something people want to do so much?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Today, this:

Bosses can legally fire employees they see as an ‘irresistible attraction’: Iowa court

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:27 pm 
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alden wrote:


Jesus dick. That is messed up.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Yep. I hope it goes further up in the court system.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:02 pm 
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My weird ex, who I didn't really know that well but had as a facebook friend, started writing a bunch of creepy stuff about the war between the sexes because he was being rejected and he doesn't understand why people don't just want to have sex with him all the time. I had to unfriend him, it was just too much. He even wrote that if people don't like what he has to say, they can just put their settings so they don't see his posts and don't have to unfriend him. I was just too weirded out by it all. Especially since he was all about pressuring me to have sex the entire time we were together (which wasn't very long). (I do call him my ex, even though we only dated for two weeks, because for me at the time, it was a big deal.) I guess I thought he would have grown out of that by now, but even if he hadn't, at least not talk about it on facebook.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:33 pm 
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my boyfriend when he says I'm merely overreacting because of the abuse I experience. I dont agree and even if it were true that things affect me more than they "should", that doesnt negate how shitty it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:39 pm 
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I challenge my own feminism because I don't like my body. Shhh.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:15 pm 
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I met a woman through my moms group who not only is pro-life but worked at a pregnancy center that spreads the idea that abortions are emotionally damaging blahblahblah. And yet, she is really nice. I can see that her beliefs come from a good place, but I am really so completely pro-choice that I can't see continuing to be friends. I dislike someone just for their beliefs.

I just don't know what to do with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Tea wrote:


It was a victory for Family Values!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:43 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
I met a woman through my moms group who not only is pro-life but worked at a pregnancy center that spreads the idea that abortions are emotionally damaging blahblahblah. And yet, she is really nice. I can see that her beliefs come from a good place, but I am really so completely pro-choice that I can't see continuing to be friends. I dislike someone just for their beliefs.

I just don't know what to do with that.


I'm interested to know why this means you can't be friends with her? I'm not judging you at all; I'm genuinely just curious. Does she talk about her beliefs so much that it is off-putting? Does she try to convince you to believe what she believes? Is it just hard for you to think about other things that you like about her when you interact with her?

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