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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:50 pm 
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missdelaney wrote:

This happened to my (female) coworker and I today. A guy just wouldn't let us answer a question without talking over us or trying to say more. Dude...you're here because we know what we're talking about.

Exactly!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:51 pm 
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The Steubenville rape case has just shaken me so badly. Everything that is wrong with the way young people are raised is right here. I cannot believe people would be tweeting, instagraming, youtubing and FBing jokes as a girl is kidnapped and gangraped and not intervening. No one stopped the rapists from carting a drunk unresponsive 16 year old from party to party subjecting her to hours of sexual assaults. And of course once it came to light.... cue the victim blaming.

Its so sad because its a reflection of the culture I see in my friend's 13 year old's middle class middle school, with the boys (12 and up) joking about wanting to rape the girls and making comments on their FB about "raping that asparagus."

Spoilering because it is terrible.
Spoiler: show
Quote:
Twitter posts, videos and photographs circulated by some who attended the nightlong set of parties suggested that an unconscious girl had been sexually assaulted over several hours while others watched. She even might have been urinated on. In one photograph posted on Instagram by a Steubenville High football player, the girl, who was from across the Ohio River in Weirton, W.Va., is shown looking unresponsive as two boys carry her by her wrists and ankles. Twitter users wrote the words “rape” and “drunk girl” in their posts.

Rumors of a possible crime spread, and people, often with little reliable information, quickly took sides. Some residents and others on social media blamed the girl, saying she put the football team in a bad light and put herself in a position to be violated. Others supported the girl, saying she was a victim of what they believed was a hero-worshiping culture built around football players who think they can do no wrong.

On Aug. 22, the possible crime made local news when the police came forward with details: two standout Steubenville football players — Mays, 16, from Bloomingdale, Ohio, and Ma’lik Richmond, 16, from Steubenville — were arrested and later charged with raping a 16-year-old girl and kidnapping her by taking her to several parties while she was too drunk to resist.

The case is not the first time a high school football team has been entangled in accusations of sexual assault. But the situation in Steubenville has another layer to it that separates it from many others: It is a sexual assault accusation in the age of social media, when teenagers are capturing much of their lives on their camera phones — even repugnant, possibly criminal behavior, as they did in Steubenville in August — and then posting it on the Web, like a graphic, public diary.

The victim attended a smaller, religion-based school, where she was an honor student and an athlete.

At the parties, the girl had so much to drink that she was unable to recall much from that night, and nothing past midnight, the police said. The girl began drinking early on, according to an account that the police pieced together from witnesses, including two of the three Steubenville High athletes who testified in court in October. By 10 or 10:30 that night, it was clear that the dark-haired teenager was drunk because she was stumbling and slurring her words, witnesses testified. Some people at the party taunted her, chanted and cheered as a Steubenville High baseball player dad bystanders to urinate on her, one witness testified.

About two hours later, the girl left the party with several Big Red football players, including Mays and Richmond, witnesses said. They stayed only briefly at a second party before leaving for their third party of the night. Two witnesses testified that the girl needed help walking. One testified that she was carried out of the house by Mays and Richmond while she “was sleeping.” She woke up long enough to vomit in the street, a witness said, and she remained there alone for several minutes with her top off. Another witness said Mays and Richmond were holding her hair back.

Afterward, they headed to the home of one football player who has now become a witness for the prosecution. That player told the police that he was in the back seat of his Volkswagen Jetta with Mays and the girl when Mays proceeded to flash the girl’s breasts and penetrate her with his fingers, while the player videotaped it on his phone. The player, who shared the video with at least one person, testified that he videotaped Mays and the girl “because he was being stupid, not making the right choices.” He said he later deleted the recording.

The girl “was just sitting there, not really doing anything,” the player testified. “She was kind of talking, but I couldn’t make out the words that she was saying.” At that third party, the girl could not walk on her own and vomited several times before toppling onto her side, several witnesses testified. Mays then tried to coerce the girl into giving him oral sex, but the girl was unresponsive, according to the player who videotaped Mays and the girl.

The player said he did not try to stop it because “at the time, no one really saw it as being forceful.”


At one point, the girl was on the ground, naked, unmoving and silent, according to two witnesses who testified. Mays, they said, had exposed himself while he was right next to her.

Richmond was behind her, with his hands between her legs, penetrating her with his fingers, a witness said.

“I tried to tell Trent to stop it,” another athlete, who was Mays’s best friend, testified. “You know, I told him, ‘Just wait — wait till she wakes up if you’re going to do any of this stuff. Don’t do anything you’re going to regret.’ ”

He said Mays answered: “It’s all right. Don’t worry.” That boy took a photograph of what Mays and Richmond were doing to the girl. He explained in court how he wanted her to know what had happened to her, but he deleted it from his phone, he testified, after showing it to several people.

The girl slept on a couch in the basement of that home that night, with Mays alongside her before he took a spot on the floor.

When she awoke, she was unaware of what had happened to her, she has told her parents and the police. But by then, the story of her night was already unfolding on the Internet, on Twitter and via text messages. Compromising and explicit photographs of her were posted and shared.

Within a day, a family member in town shared with the girl’s parents more disturbing visuals: a photograph posted on Instagram of their daughter who looked passed out at a party and a YouTube video of a former Steubenville baseball player talking about a rape. That former player, who graduated earlier this year, also posted on Twitter, “Song of the night is definitely Rape Me by Nirvana,” and “Some people deserve to be peed on,” which was reshared on Twitter by several people, including Mays.

The parents then notified the police and took their daughter to a hospital. At 1:38 a.m. on Aug. 14, the girl’s parents walked into the Steubenville police station with a flash drive with photographs from online, Twitter posts and the video on it. It was all the evidence the girl’s parents had, leaving the police with the task of filling in the details of what had happened that night. The police said the case was challenging partly because too much time had passed since the suspected rape. By then, the girl had taken at least one shower and might have washed away evidence, said McCafferty, the police chief. He added that it also was too late for toxicology tests to determine if she had been drugged.

“My daughter learned about what had happened to her that night by reading the story about it in the local newspaper,” the girl’s mother said.


For more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sport ... anted=all&

http://deadspin.com/5969103/how-an-alle ... nd-youtube

I feel like our rape culture is just getting worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
I feel like our rape culture is just getting worse.


Do you think that it is getting worse or that we are just really that much more aware? I ask in all seriousness. I grew up in a very very small isolated community on an Native American reservation. I had no idea that these things happened. And even with the advent of the internet, I know most people who still live there don't know either.

I had to seek out my political and social education.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:16 pm 
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kfad wrote:
Do you think that it is getting worse or that we are just really that much more aware? .


I think that all the electronic media makes it so much easier to spread the view that rape is okay and to shame a rape victim. Here you have kids making jokes about the victim, taking photos and slut shaming ("some people deserve to be pissed on" "no one sleeps through a wang in the butthole" "#deadgirl") as the rape is occurring. How did we get to a place where a person being raped is a giant joke? When I was in HS, no one joked about raping someone, now my friend's 13 year old has constant comments from her classmates about how they want to rape her. There was a case in India where a 16 year old was gangraped for hours and she went home and just wanted to forget about it, but within minutes video of her being raped was being circulated as a joke. I think that makes for a difference in rape culture - its not seen as a crime but as a joke or something that happens to sluts, not the women you care about.

Also, I knew two women who were gang raped (both at frat parties) when I was in college, but it didn't end up on the internet. It sucks and no one was prosecuted, but people weren't posting pictures to their FB and making sure everyone knew what had happened to them. Their rapists are probably happily married with kids of their own and don't even think about it any more.

The victim here is being completely slutshamed and ostracized for what happened to her. Everyone in their town knows about it and knew who she was before she knew what had happened to her. She found out about it through the newspaper because of the posts on Twitter and photos on Instagram of her being naked and penetrated and being pissed on.

The rapists didn't even get suspended for a single football game. They still have their college scholarships. Not one witness has come forward to testify against the boys.

I think the internet and the ease of disseminating and seeing sexual violence is making rape seem more acceptable. Porn is practically free and the distributors seem to be making more and more extreme videos. On sites like Public Disgrace you can see actors act out gang rapes, kidnapping, anal torture etc without even paying for a subscription.

And we all say, "oh its just a movie, people should know better." But seeing it regularly does normalize it, and desensitizes people to it. They did a survey of prostitutes and found that the sex acts that they were asked to perform really were affected by the porn the men in the area watched. Prostitutes trafficked from Mexico said that once they were in the US they had to do a lot more anal sex. And at the end of the day, if movies had no effect on our behavior why would advertisers pay millions for just a few minutes of air time?

I am going to stop now.

I wish that we could teach our young people that sexual assault isn't okay and to say something, intervene if you see something going wrong. The boys shouldn't have raped a drunk girl, the victim's friends and other partygoers should have gotten her to a hospital to check for alcohol poisoning and stopped people assaulting her, the people who posted on Instagram, Twitter, FB etc instead of calling 911, the school should have refused to let the boys off the hook, witnesses should have come forward, people shouldn't be deleting their posts, which are now evidence, the police should be actively prosecuting this case, the victim should not be being ostracized, shamed and blamed for putting the football players at risk or bringing embarrassment and inconvenience to people, she shouldn't have learned about her rape in the media, the colleges where these boys have scholarships should withdraw them and refuse to admit people who show that kind of behavior because we need to send a real sign that rape is not okay and we need to change the culture around rape and sexual assault.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:56 pm 
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The colleges likely will revoke scholarships at some point. Not for any great reason, but because they don't want to deal with this on campus or the fallout, but if they revoke them without admissions of guilt or a verdict, would they open themselves up to lawsuits?

At VT, they even eventually booted Marcus Vick out. Took them long enough, but once he was a clear liability, they booted him. Long after the student body wanted his asparagus out.

The fact that so many saw this occurring yet didn't say anything, call 911 or do anything to help is the most disturbing part of this entire case to me. (other than what was done to this poor girl)

To all the crassholes blaming her for being drunk and in the situation: these boys had lots of courses of action. The decent one would have been to take her home and see that she was safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:46 pm 
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I'm sure there are all sorts of things wrong with this and I'm not a fan of hacking and other activities, but I think it's pretty awesome:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -girl.html

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:59 pm 
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The second link I posted has the info about the release of the video by hacktivist group KnightSec.

The worst part was this:
Quote:
It's unclear how many other Steubenville students are in the room at the time, although at least two of them, who remain off-camera, admonish Nodianos for making light of a rape. "What if that was your daughter?" one of them asks. Nodianos replies simply, "But it isn't."


Besides the horror of what this girl went through, the idea that people were actually debating whether or not they should be joking about her being raped as it was happening and no one thought "Oh let's check and see if she has alcohol poisoning or is really dead or maybe just pull those guys off her and take her somewhere safe" is disgusting.

If you read the spoilered details, you'll see why I am so shocked at the callousness of the way she was treated. She was treated like she wasn't even human. They had passerbys peas on her, they left her lying around naked, they took photos of themselves raping her and dragging her around like an object. That is all she was to them, an object. Not a person. She wasn't a person to her friends who took her to the party, she was nothing. Just a drunk slut who got what she deserved.

I NEED TO STOP READING these things. Dear rapists - stop raping.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:09 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
I'm sure there are all sorts of things wrong with this and I'm not a fan of hacking and other activities, but I think it's pretty awesome:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -girl.html


I would like to have a problem with this... but I don't. Not really.

I will agree that media makes slut shaming too easy. Part of my learning process is trying to understand the why. And I just can't get there. So I ask questions that might not have answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Also, because these things trigger me.. I don't always have the strength to read the details. And was therefore really unaware of how awful this case in particular was.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:17 pm 
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I've been trying to avoid reading all the details too. I'm sorry I'm so squeamish; these things haunt me.

This case, the horrific case in India, and some others recently go way beyond rape. Torture?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:37 pm 
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And to make it just a little more clear that the powers that be are aligned against the victim: http://localleaks.blogs.ru/

It turns out that Prosecutor Hanlin, the prosecutor of that county is the mother of one of the football players and that one of the parties the victim was carried to and raped at was at her house. She actively discouraged the victim from filing charges. I hope she gets disbarred.

The victim was the ex of a friend of the rapist, who allegedly orchestrated the whole thing to get back at her, even enlisting other women to help trap her. Allegedly she was drugged before the assaults took place.

Quote:
Cody Saltsman was originally charged in the gang rape. After a private back-room meeting at Naples Pasta House restaurant in Steubenville between Saltsman’s father, the Sheriff – and a certain Mr. Teramana (a wealthy Steubenville resident) – Cody Saltsman’s charges were mysteriously dismissed. Saltsman is a former boyfriend of the victim of this attack, and it appears there is quite a bit of bad blood between them – adding a layer of vengence and viciousness that may explain the raw brutality of the attack upon this girl.


kfad, I typed a long response to your question re changes in rape culture. I don't know if you were able to read it, but it was pretty triggering to write, and I'd love to know your thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:48 pm 
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All of this is pretty unbelievable.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:04 pm 
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I am working on it. I am so sorry it triggered you to write it. That was never my intent!

Let me start by saying that I truly am appalled at the rape jokes. At all, ever! I have two teen/tween girls and I live in fear that something like this will happen to them. I don't know if they (or I or what ever) have turned a blind eye to teen behavior like that. I don't see it. I didn't see it from my son (thank the heavens).

The way you explained it makes a lot of sense. And I am processing it.

You know twenty (cough cough) years ago when I was in high school rape was never even spoken of. But women were property and it was okay. Women were not adults until they had a child. The culture I grew up in is still there. A culture that would define rape as only that done by force, not done to a passed out girl. Or a girl in a relationship. (Sorry for the cis specific language, but I think in context it is correct).

I know many of my friends from high school were raped, but would not call it that. Not now, not ever.

So now I have a sort of follow up question that might never find an answer. How to we change it all? I mean I tell my kids, I call out there friends, hell, I call out my friends.

How do we as humans get to the point where we see other humans as less than human? How is that possible? And is it wrong that I see everyone involved in this specific case as just evil?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:14 pm 
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From LocalLeaks:

Quote:
After being convinced, with some amount of coaxing – to attend the parties that night with the “Rape Crew” by by Mark Cole’s girlfriend Santoro, Jane Doe was picked up at a volley ball team party she was attending in the early evening of August 11th and transported in a vehicle with Richmond, Mays and Cole in it. Jane Doe was administered a “date rape” drug snuck into her drink almost immediately, possibly while still in the vehicle enroute to the nights “festivities”. In any case, she has no memories after being picked up. The first party of the night was at the home of Assistant Coach Rick Cameletti, where Michael Nodianos, Charlie Keenan, Cody Saltsman, and Anthony Craig were already engaged in heavy drinking and drug use. At this location Jane Doe was raped multiple times by Richmond and Mays and at least two other assailants from the “Rape Crew”. At that point the “party” went on the move. They first stopped at another Assistant Coach’s home, Coach Belerdine. Belardine didn’t like what he saw, and asked them to leave. Once again, they hit the road with an unconscious Jane Doe in tow. While en route to Mark Cole’s house, Jane was again raped and sodomized in the back seat of a vehicle – and this was video recorded by Charlie Keenan who was in the front seat. Her attackers in the car were again Mays and Richmond. Once they arrived at Mark Cole’s house Jane Doe was carried to the basement where she was again raped multiple times by multiple attackers, one of which was Michael Nodianos. Finally, having sated themselves and exhausted any further entertainment that Jane Doe could provide for these animals, she was unceremoniously dumped (still unconscious) onto the front lawn of the Cole residence – where at least one member of the “Rape Crew” proceeded to urinate on her.


The Atlantic has a good article on it that is pretty mindblowing: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... rew/60502/

Quote:
On Wednesday, Jan. 2, the collective released a 12-minute video that purports to show an apparently drunk Steubenville football player mercilessly mocking the victim. (Watch the disturbing footage below.) "They raped her quicker than Mike Tyson," says the teen as others in the video laugh. "They raped her more than the Duke lacrosse team… [she was] deader than Trayvon Martin." Local author


K-fad, thanks for your thoughts! I think its really useful to be able to process the stuff that triggers us with other people, that is why I wanted your thoughts.

How to change it? Zero tolerance - if every college kicks these kids out, if Saltsman, supposedly the guy behind it, is prosecuted, if the kids who deleted their posts and video after Mays and Richmond were arrested are prosecuted for destroying evidence, if the community makes a concerted effort to stop protecting the rapists and ostracize and shun them and the coaches and the women who helped victimize this woman and makes a concerted effort to support the victim and show her that she is the important one, not the footballplayers. If the entire culture shifts to say we will not tolerate rape and someone who sits back and jokes about someone being raped or helps someone rape a woman by luring her to a party and drugging her is as bad as someone who actually rapes the person. And stop all slutshaming - who cares what the victim did, who she was, what she was wearing, if she was drunk or who she had ever dated - let's shift all the spotlight from her onto the attackers.

And you know what sucks, that isn't likely to happen as long as we live in a patriarchal culture. Even the most disgusting of the rapists is just a product of the culture they live in. In the Channon Christian case, the ringleader of the gangrapists had been in and out of jails and had most likely been molested and the victim of violence his whole life. Does it make it right, no. The Leaks site calls some of the boys sociopaths and maybe they are - but there are also plenty of cases of men who rape in their college years and then go on and have blameless lives. Its just part of our culture perhaps. That you can be a football players and do whatever you want and you get a fresh start and to be an adult when you graduate college or b-school or law-school, with none of your "youthful indiscretions" held against you.

Also, LW when I was at college, our adjunct professor's sister was lured to a party and then gangraped. Its crazy that stuff like that happens, but apparently not unheard of. I only know, because our adjunct was so upset by it and he told us about it, while on the edge of tears.

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Last edited by Tofulish on Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:20 pm 
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How do these people live with themselves?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:25 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
And to make it just a little more clear that the powers that be are aligned against the victim: http://localleaks.blogs.ru/

It turns out that Prosecutor Hanlin, the prosecutor of that county is the mother of one of the football players and that one of the parties the victim was carried to and raped at was at her house. She actively discouraged the victim from filing charges. I hope she gets disbarred.

.


I think I have talked before about Vyapti getting kicked off jury duty because he railed against the prosecutor, who earlier in jury selection had harassed a self confessed victim. If prosecutors feel it is okay to shame a victim in an unrelated case, how can we expect them to fight for the victims of their own cases?
I hope she is brought up on charges...

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:40 pm 
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I know this happens T'lish. That's not what I meant by unbelievable.

When I hear things like this, I think of all my students, and I just can't imagine any of them treating any of the others like this. In fact, they are mostly pretty respectful to each other--more so than I remember in school.

I just can't get past the part about now soulless all of these people must be. And I include here the adults and authority figures who think its ok to try to hide and cover this up in any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:00 pm 
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I think it's unbelievable for most of us because we feel guilt when we do bad things. I have gnawing feelings that keep me awake about how I could've been nicer to someone in junior high. I still feel guilt over teasing my cousin when we were little kids. Stupid stupid things. But fork. How can you rape someone and then laugh about it? Or hear about rape and laugh? Or not do something? Or at the very least speak up and be honest when it's all over and they need witnesses to speak up? How do they rationalize their own behavior? I really want to know what's going on in their minds, because it baffles mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:13 pm 
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Semen Strong
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I don't think they are soul-less. Blaming the individual often results in us letting the whole culture off the hook.

The Rape Crew were products of their environment. If you read the Leaks link then it becomes clear that the authorities in this town created a culture that protected the footballers and made sure that they were taken care of and protected, no matter what. A culture of entitlement and arrogance. The coach rewarded the boys with drugs, alcohol and porn and helped create a culture that objectified women and hooked them up with the guy who provided the date rape drug. In the Channon Christian case, the brutality is incredible and vicious and then you read that the perpetrators were victims of violence when they were children, and you realize that the violence, entitlement and arrogance doesn't arise in a vacuum.

And its of course noteworthy that the more power the boys' parents had, the quicker the charges against them were dismissed. Cole and Saltsman were never charged even though they orchestrated the attack, Nadianos is all over videos and Twitter admitting to raping her and has never been charged, no one who filmed the girl getting rape was charged, the only two who are still charged are Malik Richmond and Trent Mays, and both of them are charged as juveniles and the charges of kidnapping were dropped leaving them charged only with rape and for Mays use of a minor in sexual images. Mays is not from Steubenville and Richmond is a poor kid, whose father is a convicted felon, now living with his legal guardians in Steubenville.

NYT wrote:
Mays, who hails from a nearby town and who went to Steubenville High because of its successful football and wrestling programs, showed off his strong arm at quarterback. Richmond, who the police say came from a troubled home and has lived in Steubenville with guardians since he was 8, dominated as a quick and tall wide receiver. He also was a star of the Big Red basketball and track teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Heeeerrrrree's JACKY!
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I mentioned to Vyapti that rape culture and sports culture are intertwined to a point of limited distinction... Rothelsburger(sp) anyone?
And that the politicians, whatever the motive, are so reluctant to ensure that rape is defined as non-enthusiastic consent means we cannot move forward.
Yes, rape culture is a deep dark part of the patriarchy. It is a force that keeps the patriarchy alive. It is the tool of terror.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:00 am 
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We can certainly examine the culture and social climate that helps breed these attitudes, but we absolutely have to blame the individuals and hold them fully responsible.

Honestly, this whole trend of pushing off accountability is a huge problem. It's a big problem at my school. We can't fail kids, we have to let them turn in work when they feel like getting around to it, we can't give zeroes if they fail to make up a lab within the window we have supplies, we have to let them redo whatever they want. Nothing is held up as a choice. Kids makes a choice to not study, skip class, and not do the test? No big deal. They can do it whenever they want. This is just schoolwork, but this is the expectation the kids now have for life, so where does that end and accountability begin?

Now that there is an out of town DA and all this spotlight, I hope more charges are filed.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:54 pm 
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I am sad that I can't find any of this shocking anymore.

The Holocaust happened, Rwanda happened, the DRC is still happening... People can be complete monsters and "good" people can turn on a dime and become monsters - that they can argue about whether or not it's okay to make fun of a rape WHILE THEY'RE WATCHING IT would be inconceivable, except that regular, normal, community-oriented, family-oriented people, fathers of daughters - all of those people somehow have been able to turn into raping, torturing, murderous vessels of pure evil seemingly overnight. Sometimes I think I'm against the death penalty, but for every one of these cases these perpetrators should be forking shot in the head.

And I want all of the bystanders to go to jail for fifty years. It's unacceptable that failing to rescue someone when it constitutes no danger to yourself to do so isn't a felony.

Tofulish wrote:
It turns out that Prosecutor Hanlin, the prosecutor of that county is the mother of one of the football players and that one of the parties the victim was carried to and raped at was at her house. She actively discouraged the victim from filing charges. I hope she gets disbarred.


This is honestly the most surprising part to me. The prosecutors (and all the regular lawyers) I know are all crazy upstanding.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:09 am 
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Ugh... my teens are watching some show about shipping things. The talk about "women" drivers is awful. Guess what... women are statistically better drivers. Look at insurance claims.

I am sick to death of the jokes that women can't drive. Coming from my son... umm... no. I am not the one who flipped my car.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:35 am 
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ah. i came here to say my partner challenges feminism in my life and i can't even formulate a post now after reading that rape stuff. i have a baby daughter.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:49 am 
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A lot of the Steubenville case -- not the details of what happened, but the reaction to it -- is reminding me strongly of the Glen Ridge rape case from the late eighties.


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