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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:53 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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We tried ECing Beet and it worked until he learned to walk and then he was diaper boy for ages (totally refused the potty and had meltdowns, which he otherwise never had, when near it). When he was 3, I realised if I let him run around with no pants, he'd pee in the potty or toilet, but not poop (he'd poop if I put a diaper on him and sometimes on the floor). Finally at about 3-1/3, he started pooping on the toilet, too, but wouldn't hold anything in if he had training pants on. Randomly, a few months later, he potty trained himself in one day when we were on vacation.
I tried ECing R and he would not have it, but then one day, a few weeks after he turned 2, he declared he wasn't wearing diapers any more, so I had to potty train boot camp him fast. B has mostly been okay out and about, but with R will sometimes randomly announce he has to pee, but mostly the announcements are that he is peeing in his pants (we use training pants when we go out) right now. And I have to 'airplane pee' him when we are out -- by holding him flat facing down over the toilet (and even a sink once, when he had to pee, but would NOT use the toilet and I was tired of arguing).

Not sure what my point is here. ;p

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:15 am 
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Well now I'm feeling like a real slacker. My hunch is that Walter is going to be on the late end of normal with potty training, because neither of us is very motivated. He turned two in November. He totally knows what the potty is for and can tell you all about it, and for a couple of weeks he was using it sporadically, but now he refuses to sit on it at all. He is not bothered in the least by wet or poopie diapers and doesn't tell me when he's gone. He can't/won't/doesn't think he should have to pull his own pants up and down. He poops 3-4 times a day, and his diaper is wet every time I change it. I'm just not seeing a lot of signs he's ready.

And honestly I'm not ready either. It's much easier to change diapers than to take a resistant toddler to the potty every hour. He only HAS to be potty trained by September 2014 in order to move up to the next preschool class. I think if we haven't made any progress by this summer we'll start in earnest then, when it's warm enough to run around without pants.

It's hard to go with my gut and not push this, because everyone we know (and even moms with younger toddlers) has started potty training. It's all anyone talks about. Someone please tell me I am not the laziest mother in the world?


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:43 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Mittenmacher, my friend's mom is so awesome -- she said to just let your kids potty train themselves and then afterward, lie and tell everyone they potty trained all by themselves at 1. :D

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:55 am 
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Semen Strong
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You're definitely not a slacker Mitten! All the literature says not to force it, to let kids do it on their own, and that is what you're doing. I am just asking for advice from people if anyone has anything to share.

Potty learning wasn't even on my radar - we had a hand-me-down potty and she started to be unhappy in her diaper and letting us know, so we're definitely following her lead. There are so many books and so much information, its like introducing food all over again, and I find it daunting. One friend is putting her baby on the potty every 20 minutes and reading a book to distract her so she pees, and that seems like too much work for a 14 month old. I just would like to hear what people on the PPK did, because there are so many sane and kind parents here.

Everyone needs to just stop with the competitive mothering :) I don't win a prize if Leela can read by the time she is 18 months or if she toilets at 2 or goes to MIT at 3. I also don't win a prize for breastfeeding my child or any of the other stupid things that people get all overzealous about.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:43 am 
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Bathes in Braggs
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Not a slacker at all, mitten. The only reason Ezra potty trained so early (2 1/2) was because he was so motivated. He hates being dirty, and that was just part of it. We just went along for the ride. We had the potty out in the open since he was 18 months, so he was used to seeing it and got more comfortable using it.
But seriously, if you guys aren't ready and Walter isn't ready, then why rush it? Nothing wrong with that at all, and I think forcing a child when they aren't ready would do more harm than good. Wait for the signs, they'll come! (and give those moms pushing you the stink eye.)


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:59 am 
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Lydia is totally not ready either at age 27 months. We did try to get her to use the potty a bit, but she resisted very strongly, so we stopped. I figure it will come with time.

Here's an article on the dangers of early potty training: http://www.babble.com/toddler/toddler-h ... ing-early/

I think the author might exaggerate the problems of early potty training a bit, but still, I think it's useful to remember that there can be negatives when a kid potty trains too early.


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:19 am 
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Semen Strong
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I've read those articles too, but feel like I'm following her lead given that she is the one telling me she wants her diaper off to poo and pee. What would that author have me do? I hate that there is so much conflicting information.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:58 pm 
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I think the author says that if your young child is out of diapers you need to be monitoring and telling them to go use the potty every two hours to prevent "holding" too long.

I had never read much about potty training, but so much of what that article says sounds spot on for what my sister has been going through with her oldest. She "potty trained" around 18 months for a few months and then started having accident after accident. She also has major constipation issues unless she takes Miralax daily. This child is 4.5 years old now and over Christmas had at least one "accident" per day and wears pull-ups overnight. Her pediatrician apparently has said this is all "normal" and hasn't really recommended anything else for her. I need to forward that link to her.


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Semen Strong
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I get that, but what are you supposed to do when your child isn't happy in a diaper and clearly is interested in the potty but not yet pottytrained? Do you delay potty learning artificially, by not encouraging the potty use or not offering the potty?

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:00 am 
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Drunk Dialed Ian MacKaye
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Tofulish wrote:
I get that, but what are you supposed to do when your child isn't happy in a diaper and clearly is interested in the potty but not yet pottytrained? Do you delay potty learning artificially, by not encouraging the potty use or not offering the potty?

That is what happened to Raygold. I had to potty-train boot camp him because he took off his diapers (if I could even get them on because one day, he decided he was just not having it) and was peeing and pooping on the floor (and in his underwear). If I were you, I'd maybe give her an hour or two each day (or weekdays or something) naked or in training pants/underpants and then back to the diaper. See how that goes. That way, you're acknowledging her feelings about the diaper, but you don't have to do the potty training boot camp (which is a big commitment when your kid has no idea what to do with a potty -- Raygold's first potty-pee was completely by accident (I stuck him on the pot every hour-ish for about 5-10 minutes) and he was as surprised as I was).

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:31 am 
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i think some kids are ready. if she is really ready, then you do it. by giving leela the potty when she wants it, you're not forcing her to hold it til it's a certain scheduled time, which if i understand correctly is what the root of the problem is. if she really wants that diaper off, she'll let you know, and go with it. i think what the author means is that training/scheduling excretions at certain times or creating performance anxiety in terms of too-vigorous "training" (by which i mean disciplined training) can cause constipation, etc etc.
FC was ready to go very early, it was obvious by her ripping off her diaper. Or taking off her diaper and then putting on a clean one (sneaky little bug, she was) to get a prize for being dry.

I think the urologist (?) who wrote the article had some good points- forcing a kid too early can cause anxiety, and i think we all know kids who are afraid to poop on the potty and it turns into constipation and pain, and this vicious circle that makes everything worse. However, the author was also a presumptuous fuckbag who personally made me feel like a "nut" like Mayim Bialik because I wore my baby in a sling, fed her a high-fiber vegan diet, and whatever other insult he threw out in there, so i am not going to take his word as The Word of God.
[just my 2c!]

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:44 am 
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What Torque said. Following your child's lead makes a whole lot of sense - whether that's potty leaning at 15 months or 4 years.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:39 am 
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i am going to qualify what i said above, which i was thinking about when i was pounding things at the gym today.

the author was clear, informative and well-intentioned, i think. his attitude reminded me, though, of many of the pediatric specialists that we saw with my daughter who seemed to see themselves as having to protect children from blundering, ignorant parents. Especially the ones in GI, urology and sleep specialties, which seem to be areas where parents always doubt themselves. I'll cut it short and say it took me a while before I realized that these folks may be the experts in their areas, but i was the expert in my kid, and my expertise always made the final decision, even if it meant finding a new specialist. Carry on, expert parents.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:18 pm 
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torque wrote:
I'll cut it short and say it took me a while before I realized that these folks may be the experts in their areas, but i was the expert in my kid, and my expertise always made the final decision, even if it meant finding a new specialist. Carry on, expert parents.

I love this! Our ped thought Charlie had a broken clavicle at birth and was sure to tell me that I needed to be very careful not to lift him, swing him, or hold him by his wrists because the bone could move and puncture his lungs. I looked at him like he had 5 heads because really, who on earth would lift up their newborn by the hands?? He told me I'd be surprised.... Anyway, I think potty learning is really like everything else. There are always a million different ways to get to the end result, and we all have to decide what is best for us. And quit being made to feel guilty for our choices.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:54 pm 
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sofrito - that's so weird about your ped. It's especially weird because there was a thought that Malka had a broken clavicle at birth, so they took her to be x-rayed very shortly after. Wouldn't you want to know for sure that there was a lung puncture risk?


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:00 pm 
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It was actually our ped's partner, and he's weird. He said that since there is no treatment for a broken clavicle (it just heals on its own), their practice is not to do x-rays. The approach seemed reasonable based on what I read after he left, especially since our actual ped didn't really think it was broken when she saw him at 2 days old. Incidentally, I don't think it was broken because apparently a healing clavicle will result in a large knot that is fairly unmistakeable, and Charlie never developed one.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:02 pm 
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i read that article on another board i post on. a non-vegan board, which seems to have a really strangely high number of posts about kids having pooping issues (like serious issues... requiring longterm meds and so on). anyway, that article was really getting pushed as explaining why kids had problems with constipation, but i've been on this board for years and can't remember hearing about anyone having their kid on long term miralax or anything like that.

i think it's at least partly diet, not parents screwing up potty training. it seems much more likely that there are a lot of kids not getting enough fiber/fluids than that there are a bunch of parents doing pottying wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:40 pm 
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I agree - not that a vegan child couldn't have some of these issues, but that doesn't seem to be most peoples' experience on this board. My 3.5-year old has never been constipated or even had a painful poop. I have omni friends who are giving their kids prunes or apple juice while they are still in diapers because they are constipated, which clearly seems to be a diet issue to me.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:43 pm 
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Malka has had tons of painful poops, for awhile almost every poop made her screech in discomfort. Never been constipated for us to do enough for us to do anything about it, but I do think some systems are more inclined toward constipation than others. She certainly gets plenty of fiber and I'm a never-constipated person myself, but that's just the way she rolls.


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:39 pm 
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God, we have too much poop. Sometimes I wonder if so much poop is something to worry about. She poops at least three times a day, sometimes more, never straining. That article is making me feel bad about my bathroom rules for students at school. But only a little bit.

I can actually remember not wanting to stop playing in order to go to the bathroom. I think accidents related to that are normal? The author of that article sees an extreme portion of the population.


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Ugh, Leela wants to have her diaper off all the time. Whenever we are home it is naked time, and that means poop and pee freely time. She isn't that into the potty, and now we offer it and she says no and then runs away and poops somewhere else. Oy.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:41 am 
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Butternut wrote:
God, we have too much poop. Sometimes I wonder if so much poop is something to worry about. She poops at least three times a day, sometimes more, never straining. That article is making me feel bad about my bathroom rules for students at school. But only a little bit.


Our policy is "never say no," but "one student at a time." What's yours?


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:27 am 
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Well, I let them go when they need to go, but I encourage them to go once before lunch and once after lunch. There are so many kids who want to go just to play around in the hall that I have to spend a lot of time talking about how you shouldn't go too much, so I could see how a kid that is always trying to the right thing might get confused about how to manage a real need to go with pleasing the teachers.


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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:33 pm 
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Older Girl (3) has a horrific diaper rash that no salves/ointments seem to be helping, so yesterday I declared an End to Diapers, more or less. She is very prone to getting rashes on her superr fair skin, amd I'm sick sick sick of toddler poop. I know she CAN use the potty, she just has refused except for two random cooperative moments in the past.

Yesterday she peed twice on the floor and pooped once. We had her help clean it up. Today she has moatly gone in the potty. She says she pooped on the big toilet but I wasn't in there to see and she flushed so who knows. She's getting stickers as a reward when she goes because stickers are the BEST THING EVER.

We'll still do diapers at night and when in public for a while. But just getting her using a toilet at home will be a huge help. She poops SO MUCH.

This is, of course, only day 2... wish us luck and patience. I want this to be pleasant, not miserable, for all of us and especially her.

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 Post subject: Re: the poop scoop: toileting victories and set backs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:21 pm 
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I bought a toilet seat cover thing for grey today. We are in Michigan and spending tons of time in doors, so I figure I may as well try. He seems to understand peeing, so we will see. I'm not really expecting anything, but it would be pretty rad if he was potty trained before I went home!


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