Can we talk about vaccinations here?

SkepticalVegan · **Joined:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:16 am **Posts:** 448

solipsistnation wrote:

Oh look. We have a vaccine for Lyme disease, but anti-vaxers have essentially killed its viability in the market.

http://www.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine

Quote:

Introduced in 1998, the vaccine sold well at first. But then opponents spoke out: self-described ‘vaccine victims’ — perhaps similar to people today who claim the MMR vaccine causes autism. Back then, they said that the Lyme vaccine gave them arthritis.

“And this sort of got into popular lore,” Poland recalls. “It got on the Internet. There were a number of East Coast lawyers who started putting together class-action lawsuits. There were anti-vaccine advocacy groups that were formed.”

And there were threats against the scientists who had worked to help protect people against the disease. Poland had to hide where he lived. Steere got a security detail.

The clinical data did not back up any of this. The trials had not shown such side effects. The Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control looked into the claims, and then continued to recommended that people exposed to tick-infested areas get the vaccine.

But it was too late. Sales had plummeted. Four years after offering people immunity against Lyme, SmithKline Beecham stopped making the vaccine. The second vaccine-maker, Pasteur Mérieux Connaught, saw what had happened and never put out its own product.

Very interesting...If we had the vaccine available maybe that would mean no more "chronic lyme" either

refinnej · **Posted:** Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:28 pm

Ooh, we read that earlier this year when hunting for info about the pertussis vaccine. (we had to argue with our doctor to get it before we traveled to Michigan). So immensely sad.

Rebekah · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:29 pm

I'm 27, and have been hiding in the herd all my life. Truly, I've never had a shot. I'm not proud of this.

If you ask my mother, she'll tell you that my two older siblings didn't react well to vaccines, so her doctor allowed her to skip 'em with her next two children. If you ask me, I'll tell you that my parents lost a baby before me, and were probably just scared. There's a lot more information available now.

Either way, I keep meaning to get the most important vaccinations... once I have two nickels to rub together.

Vantine · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:42 pm

Rebekah wrote:

I'm 27, and have been hiding in the herd all my life. Truly, I've never had a shot. I'm not proud of this.

If you ask my mother, she'll tell you that my two older siblings didn't react well to vaccines, so her doctor allowed her to skip 'em with her next two children. If you ask me, I'll tell you that my parents lost a baby before me, and were probably just scared. There's a lot more information available now.

Either way, I keep meaning to get the most important vaccinations... once I have two nickels to rub together.

You might want to check with your local health department. They might offer some vaccines at low/no cost to people who need them.

Jigglypuff · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:14 pm

What Vantine said. Or if you're a college student you could check with your campus health center.

Rebekah · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:53 am

Vantine wrote:

You might want to check with your local health department. They might offer some vaccines at low/no cost to people who need them.

It's about a mile from my house. You've just set my last excuse on fire! Needles, here I come.

~gulp~

Jigglypuff, I should have thought of that when I was a student.

chiveggie · **Joined:** Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:17 pm **Posts:** 664

solipsistnation wrote:

Oh look. We have a vaccine for Lyme disease, but anti-vaxers have essentially killed its viability in the market.

http://www.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine

Quote:

Introduced in 1998, the vaccine sold well at first. But then opponents spoke out: self-described ‘vaccine victims’ — perhaps similar to people today who claim the MMR vaccine causes autism. Back then, they said that the Lyme vaccine gave them arthritis.

“And this sort of got into popular lore,” Poland recalls. “It got on the Internet. There were a number of East Coast lawyers who started putting together class-action lawsuits. There were anti-vaccine advocacy groups that were formed.”

And there were threats against the scientists who had worked to help protect people against the disease. Poland had to hide where he lived. Steere got a security detail.

The clinical data did not back up any of this. The trials had not shown such side effects. The Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control looked into the claims, and then continued to recommended that people exposed to tick-infested areas get the vaccine.

But it was too late. Sales had plummeted. Four years after offering people immunity against Lyme, SmithKline Beecham stopped making the vaccine. The second vaccine-maker, Pasteur Mérieux Connaught, saw what had happened and never put out its own product.

I actually have a friend that developed rheumatoid arthritis right after getting the lyme vaccine as a kid and has been battling RA her whole life now. Apparently it was a rare side effect for a small percentage of people. The main lawsuit was because there was a screening test that could have identified people at risk for the side effect and they think the drug company should have advised people to get screened before getting vaccinated. Actually I think it was a reaction to an ingredient in the shot, not even the actual vaccine itself.

mooo · **Posted:** Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:48 pm

Institute of Medicine report that shows no safety concerns with the currently recommended childhood immunization schedule:

"Driven largely by concerns about potential side effects, there has been a shift in some parents’ attitudes toward the child immunization schedule. HHS asked the IOM to identify research approaches, methodologies, and study designs that could address questions about the safety of the current schedule.

This report is the most comprehensive examination of the immunization schedule to date. The IOM committee uncovered no evidence of major safety concerns associated with adherence to the childhood immunization schedule. Should signals arise that there may be need for investigation, however, the report offers a framework for conducting safety research using existing or new data collection systems."

http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2013/The-Chi ... afety.aspx

FootFace · **Posted:** Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:00 pm

Antivaxxers are already formulating their reasons why this report is not to be trusted, I'm sure.

SkepticalVegan · **Joined:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:16 am **Posts:** 448

FootFace wrote:

Antivaxxers are already formulating their reasons why this report is not to be trusted, I'm sure.

No reason needed, its from the Institute of Medicine, thats enough reason for them.

Tofulish · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:51 pm

I'm interested to know how all the anti-vaxers feel about the apparent link between the H1N1 vaccine administered in Europe and narcolepsy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/2 ... 25192.html

Quote:

In total, the GSK shot was given to more than 30 million people in 47 countries during the 2009-2010 H1N1 swine flu pandemic. Because it contains an adjuvant, or booster, it was not used in the United States because drug regulators there are wary of adjuvanted vaccines.

GSK says 795 people across Europe have reported developing narcolepsy since the vaccine's use began in 2009.

Questions about how the narcolepsy cases are linked to Pandemrix, what the triggers and biological mechanisms might have been, and whether there might be a genetic susceptibility are currently the subject of deep scientific investigation. But experts on all sides are wary. Rare adverse reactions can swiftly develop into "vaccine scares" that spiral out of proportion and cast what one of Europe's top flu experts calls a "long shadow" over public confidence in vaccines that control potential killers like measles and polio.

"No-one wants to be the next Wakefield," said Mignot, referring to the now discredited British doctor Andrew Wakefield who sparked a decades-long backlash against the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) shot with false claims of links to autism.

With the narcolepsy studies, there is no suggestion that the findings are the work of one rogue doctor. Independent teams of scientists have published peer-reviewed studies from Sweden, Finland and Ireland showing the risk of developing narcolepsy after the 2009-2010 immunisation campaign was between seven and 13 times higher for children who had Pandemrix than for their unvaccinated peers.

"We really do want to get to the bottom of this. It's not in anyone's interests if there is a safety issue that needs to be addressed," said GSK's Begg.

And most of the anti-vaxers I know see vaccines as a personal choice - they don't really attack people who choose not to vaccinate.

Vantine · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:52 pm

SkepticalVegan wrote:

FootFace wrote:

Antivaxxers are already formulating their reasons why this report is not to be trusted, I'm sure.

No reason needed, its from the Institute of Medicine, thats enough reason for them.

Perhaps they could join with the Scientologists and just blame psychiatry.

FootFace · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:11 pm

Tofulish wrote:

And most of the anti-vaxers I know see vaccines as a personal choice - they don't really attack people who choose not to vaccinate.

Why would anti-vaxers attack people who choose not to vaccinate?

FootFace · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:17 pm

(Boy, I really don't understand anti-vaxers.)

Tofulish · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:16 pm

Sorry, my error. I don't see any anti-vax people attacking those who choose to vaccinate.

I'd still like to know how people feel about the H1N1 vax and narcolepsy connection.

Chipmunk · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:53 pm

I don't think there is enough information to draw any conclusions yet.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... arcolepsy/
http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2011/august/narcolepsy.html

littlebird · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:05 pm

supposedly there is a genetic link.

kimba · **Joined:** Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:44 pm **Posts:** 1920

Tofulish wrote:

Sorry, my error. I don't see any anti-vax people attacking those who choose to vaccinate.

Ugh. They do on my facebook veg group. I need to get off that group, there is too much judginess. There are cool people on there too, but they tend to keep their mouths shut.

beforewisdom · **Joined:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:28 pm **Posts:** 848

I've seen that in Facebook groups too.

I would think posting with a picture and a real name (most of the time) would slow people down from getting into pissing contests.

LisaPunk · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:57 pm

can someone explain to me the point of the Hep B vaccine in babies other than "it's what they say to do?"

im just starting to delve into all this vaccine stuff and i looked through the baby vax schedule on babycenter.com and for the most part i dont have a big issue with anything (not sure about my husband though)

the biggest one im hung up on is the hep b.

from what i understand and my Dr didnt say anything to make me think otherwise is it's basically to vaccinate all babies rather than deal with adults who contract Hep B because alot of those adults are unlikely to seek treatment. (im not trying to generalize that's just what a lot of the info ive read seems to point to)

it seems like the biggest risk of infection is from unsafe sex and shared needles. babycenter was kinda vague on other risks of infection.

mollyjade · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:12 pm

From my understanding, it's just a way to get the vaccine in while you're already at the doctor. Also, there's a risk of transmission through breast milk, I believe. Obviously you know don't have hep B, but doctors have to make these recommendations based on the general population.

And, just my own speculation, I wonder if doctors don't want to get it in while parents aren't paying much attention. A parent of an older child might not bother to get this immunization because few people want to think their kids are engaging in risky behavior. But most people have babies in the hospital, so you can count on a high rate of compliance this way.

I think this is the one vaccine I'm planning to delay a bit for my future imaginary kid. Birth sounds rough enough as it is.

Tofulish · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:14 pm

Yes, its done for public health reasons, as mollyjade said. We declined it and figured we'd revisit once she is older.

Larisa · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:15 pm

I think it's mostly just that it's a good idea for all teenagers and adults to be vaccinated, so you might as well get it done when the kid is at the doctor's office and getting stuck with a bunch of needles anyway.

LisaPunk · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:18 pm

so when you declined it you declined it after birth and then at Leela's first bunch of appts?

we asked the OB about it and she said it was no biggie to delay the first one but then we should make sure to get onto the sched with the pediatrician. we just sort of shook our heads and said "ok" at the time.

i wanted to read more about it because i kind of feel like that one isnt 100% necessary.
my MIL is super anti-vax and is convinced all vax will give us all autism and kill us (oy vey) and my husband only got a few vax and i think his younger sibs got even less.

he's not on the anti-vax bandwagon but he is very much a "i didnt get it and im fine" type of person so i may need to pick my battles with him. i read over the babycenter sched adn for the most part am fine with it though i think i may opt to space some of them out like some people do. seems like a lot of shots!

Larisa · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:21 pm

I don't have kids, but the reasoning that one of my friends used for NOT spacing out the vaccines is that, once the kid is in the doctor's office and getting shots anyway, the kid doesn't really care how many shots there are. Her kids will get scared and cry and do whatever else kids do whether they're getting one shot or a hundred on any particular day, and she'd rather get a bunch of shots done at once and thus minimize the number of times that her kids have to get scared.

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