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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Being taught bad touch good touch and who to tell got me out of a bad situation. I'm always thankful about learning that. I learned it in school. It didn't make me scared, but it gave me some skills I needed when I needed them. It didn't stop me from getting molested, but it stopped it from continuing.


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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:22 pm 
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I'm glad kids learn those things (and glad you learned them, too).

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:45 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
Walking or riding bikes to school is rarer. Scrutiny of adults (especially men) is more intense.



Yeah, now we only walked to school on rare-nice-weather lazy days, usually I got a ride or bussed to school, but seriously people freak out more about walking. Its only a mile! That used to be nothing! I bet busses now pick up kids who would only have a 5 minute walk!

I had a HS friend recently complaining because her kids had to walk 22 houses to the bus stop. Sure, I guess I only had to walk 12 houses, but walking 22 houses would have been just fine, and her houses in her development are closer so it was probably nearly equivalent in distance.

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:48 am 
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Mom arrested (and spends the night in jail) for letting her 6 and 9 year old kids play outside. I can't believe a neighbor would call the police before speaking to a parent. And she apparently lied by saying she had hit one of the kids with her car.

Quote:
Police falsely arrested a mother for "child endangerment" after a neighbor reported that she had abandoned her children by letting them ride scooters in the street, the mom claims in court.

In her complaint, Cooper says she lives on a "quiet, suburban cul de sac" and "often allows her 6- and 9-year-old children to ride their scooters on the street while she watches from a chair in the driveway or through the large windows on the front of her house."

"On the day of her arrest, Cooper's children were playing on their scooters in the cul de sac when her neighbor, defendant Shelley Fuller, called the City of La Porte Police Department to report that Cooper had 'abandoned' her children," the complaint states.Cooper says she told the responding La Porte policeman that she had been home the whole time.

"Unknown Officer went across the street to talk with defendant Fuller. It was at this point that Fuller reported, for the first time, that she had struck one of Cooper's children with her vehicle as they played in the street," the complaint states. "Unknown Officer returned to Cooper's home, and after another conversation with Unknown Officer, Cooper was placed under arrest for the felony offenses of child endangerment and child abandonment.

"Never at any point were any of Cooper's children hit by a car as they played in the street. Moreover, Cooper was observing her children the entire time they were outside on the date of her arrest and thus could not plausibly have abandoned them. Despite the fact that Fuller alleged she had hit one of the children with her vehicle, no medical response was called for or needed as it was obvious that neither child had been hit by a car or was hurt in any way. Interestingly, Fuller was never confronted about her lie regarding striking the child with the car. Instead, Cooper, the victim of an angry neighbor, was arrested and charged with a crime in a public and embarrassing manner."

Cooper says her children witnessed her arrest and pleaded with the officer not to take her to jail, an experience made worse by the fact that their father was away in Austin on military duty.


http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/09/07/50051.htm

Quote:
The charges against her were eventually dropped but she still describes the ordeal as humiliating and said her children were even questioned by police and terrified. "My daughter had him (the police officer) around the leg saying, "Please, please don't take my mom to jail. Please, she didn't do anything wrong,'" said Cooper.

The La Porte Police department issued a statement saying;

"...we are confident in the known actions of the responding officers. In addition, officers did contact the Harris County District Attorney's Office while on the scene that evening, upon which their Office accepted charges of Abandoning a Child on Ms. Cooper."

Cooper said the ordeal has been stressful, time consuming and costly. She said her family has already shelled out $7,000 in legal fees


http://www.click2houston.com/news/Mom-s ... index.html

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:08 am 
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Tofulish wrote:
Mom arrested (and spends the night in jail) for letting her 6 and 9 year old kids play outside. I can't believe a neighbor would call the police before speaking to a parent. And she apparently lied by saying she had hit one of the kids with her car.


Dude, how can you arrest someone for abandonment when you have located them WITH their children?

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:32 am 
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Well, it wasn't just the police, the DA okayed the arrest...

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:41 pm 
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A non-dire (but still outrageous) free-range kids-related story:

Woman taking junior-high-aged son with her into the ladies' room because... KIDNAPPERS!

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:05 pm 
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I think I expressed a similar sentiment to the story FF links to on this forum before I had L and the mothers with sons kindly set me right about the fact that it really is each parent's prerogative to determine what works best for their family. There could be a lot of reasons for not wanting to leave your kid unattended, especially if your child has challenges (that may not be visible to casual observers).

I am generally all about the outrage/free range train, but here, I think its up to each parent to make up their own minds when their kid is okay to be allowed to go to the loo alone or should be accompanied and the rest of us should just STFU. And using the 4 year old little girl to underscore how "nutty" it was to take a junior high kid into the women's room just seems to play into the same kind of narrow minded fears that Free Range Kids generally seeks to avoid.

I like the idea that as parents we make our own choices, based on our knowledge of our kids, without undue interference or judgement from others, and that is generally what FRK espouses - if I think my 10 year old can walk 1 block to school, then its crazy to have the police called on me for abandonment. But at the same time, if I don't want my 10 year old walking that same block to school, everyone needs to STFU and respect my decision because I know my kid.

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:55 pm 
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I do think that there are parents who need support in knowing what is appropriate. I have known of instances of extreme sheltering as being a parent's attempt to hide abuse. Even when the sheltering is not done in order to hide abusive behavior, not allowing your child to learn basic independence and other life skills can be seriously detrimental to a kid.


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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:55 pm 
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In the article, it sounded like the kid was totally embarrassed and the mother was completely, unduly frightened.

But you're right: we can't know all the details.

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:10 pm 
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We had a rule in my old gym that you couldn't bring a different sex kid in the locker room older than six. It was a good rule, but totally shuts out people with disabled kids if they don't also have a family locker room for those situations. Our new gym just has a family changing room and no posted rules about whose supposed to use them.


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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:45 pm 
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FootFace wrote:
In the article, it sounded like the kid was totally embarrassed and the mother was completely, unduly frightened.

But you're right: we can't know all the details.

We can wonder what the mother meant by "it's the times we live in." She didn't tell the guard that it wasn't appropriate for her son to be alone; she yelled at the guard. The story Lenore Skenazy tells of the 13 year old boy who had never been to the public restroom alone, despite being mortified that he was taken to the women's room, was mind blowing.

I also wonder what the guard would have done if someone had objected to a teen/pre-teen boy being in the women's restroom. Junior high can include 11-14.

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:19 pm 
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Hey, can I propose a solution? Let's do away with gendered bathrooms, put decent, noise-reducing doors on stalls that go all the way to the floor, and make them clean, nonseedy spaces where families don't have to debate whether their kid is old enough to go alone, trans people don't have to worry about their safety, and forcing a binary gender on people for whom that question is a little fuzzier is unnecessary. Plus then maybe I can take a dump in a public restroom wtihout it being gross. EVERYONE WINS.


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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Annak for President of Everything Forever!

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Annak, yup. Slightly harder with locker rooms, although I really like our gym's solution which creates several single-use locker rooms with their own showers, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:07 pm 
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annak wrote:
Hey, can I propose a solution? Let's do away with gendered bathrooms, put decent, noise-reducing doors on stalls that go all the way to the floor, and make them clean, nonseedy spaces where families don't have to debate whether their kid is old enough to go alone, trans people don't have to worry about their safety, and forcing a binary gender on people for whom that question is a little fuzzier is unnecessary. Plus then maybe I can take a dump in a public restroom wtihout it being gross. EVERYONE WINS.


I wonder if I can sig this whole thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:51 am 
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annak wrote:
Hey, can I propose a solution? Let's do away with gendered bathrooms, put decent, noise-reducing doors on stalls that go all the way to the floor, and make them clean, nonseedy spaces where families don't have to debate whether their kid is old enough to go alone, trans people don't have to worry about their safety, and forcing a binary gender on people for whom that question is a little fuzzier is unnecessary. Plus then maybe I can take a dump in a public restroom wtihout it being gross. EVERYONE WINS.


DING DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER EVERYBODY :D

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:53 am 
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while i think it's a bit extreme, i can understand how for a non-new yorker the bathrooms in a place like that could be panic-inducing. Although for me, the new Happy Fun Clean Safe New York is pretty much a place where a 10-year old can wander free, there are some pockets of scariness still. A while ago we were in line for the bathroom at Port Authority (me and kid) and it was the old screaming-bathroom-attendant and angry-homeless-lady and security guards and wildness. I remember the bad old days and rather enjoyed it (and told FC to cautiously relish it, it was like seeing the last Passenger Pigeon), but there were some other ladies from our bus coming in from rural New Jersey who were obviously expecting to be set on fire or sliced and diced. Maybe this place was similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:09 am 
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It was Rockefeller Center so very sanitized and safe, but still incredibly busy. I could see being overwhelmed by the crowds and just wanting to hang on to my kid... Esp as you point out tourists often expect NYC to be more dangerous than other areas.

I worked next to Rock Center and its just so packed all the time, especially during the holidays when its a mad house. I wouldn't even go there for lunch, because it was so busy it felt claustrophobic. Its pretty though - view on the skating rink and all. I'd prefer all the awesome Japanese noodle places around the area.

And NYC while sanitized still has weird pockets, torque! I lived at 53rd and 2nd so right in midtown near Sutton Place and at 51st bet 2nd and 3rd was a row of Japanese restaurants, upstairs bars and brothels. In the morning you'd see the girls hanging out and waving to their clients as they left and in the evening there were all these tattooed Yakuza guys in the area. The Japanese food was awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:57 pm 
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I thought that article was super judgy. So apparently that mom has ruined her son so he can't possibly be a suitable mate when he is an adult? I mean, I get thinking the bathroom thing was weird, but full on ranting about it? We don't know her reasons. Maybe the kid has autism, maybe the mom has an anxiety disorder, maybe it's just an overly protective mom like the author thought, but I just thought it was written in a nasty, mean way.


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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:19 pm 
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kimba wrote:
I thought that article was super judgy. So apparently that mom has ruined her son so he can't possibly be a suitable mate when he is an adult? I mean, I get thinking the bathroom thing was weird, but full on ranting about it? We don't know her reasons. Maybe the kid has autism, maybe the mom has an anxiety disorder, maybe it's just an overly protective mom like the author thought, but I just thought it was written in a nasty, mean way.


I totally agree. I think if someone says "hey it is ok, I'm right here", I'd guess that there is something else going on like autism. This seems to be the reason you see 'family' bathrooms in more and more places. I can feel for mothers and fathers for situations like this.

And it'd be nice to go to single stalls or single sex bathrooms but personally, I get paranoid when I go into an empty bathroom. If I went into a bathroom, shared sinks, enclosed stalls, I'd still have safety concerns. Whether those concerns are imagined or real, they are still perceived.

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:55 pm 
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How about the 7-year-old suspended from his Colorado elementary school for playing a game at recess where he throws an imaginary hand grenade into a box of evil forces to protect the world?

Zero-tolerance policies are inherently foolish.

http://kdvr.com/2013/02/04/7-year-old-playing-an-imaginary-game-at-school-gets-suspended-for-real/

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:17 pm 
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What?!?! I don't have too many good words for this. What was this school thinking?!!?


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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:42 pm 
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They were thinking that because guns and other weapons and fighting are bad and dangerous that they can't have rules against them without also having rules against things that aren't guns or other weapons or fighting.

I guess?

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 Post subject: Re: Free-range kids and related stuff
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:57 pm 
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wow. that's nuts! i love how the article directly quoted the kid saying "dispended"
Shouldn't there at least be a warning system for something like this? tell the kid he can't use pretend weapons to save the world before you suspend him.

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