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 Post subject: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:19 pm 
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http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/fe ... rt-attack/

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The second unofficial spokesman for the Heart Attack Grill in downtown Las Vegas has died from an apparent heart attack.

John Alleman suffered a heart attack last week as he waited at the bus stop in front of the restaurant, located inside the Neonopolis at Fremont Street and Las Vegas Boulevard.

Alleman was taken off life support shortly after 1 p.m. on Monday, said restaurant owner Jon Basso. He was 52.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Sorry, I'm not feeling it.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Yeah, me either. :/


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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Desdemona wrote:
Sorry, I'm not feeling it.

I'm right with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:52 pm 
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fupapack wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
Sorry, I'm not feeling it.

I'm right with you.

Me too. How sad for this poor man and his family. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to be grieving the loss of a loved one, as comedians make jokes about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
fupapack wrote:
Desdemona wrote:
Sorry, I'm not feeling it.

I'm right with you.

Me too. How sad for this poor man and his family. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to be grieving the loss of a loved one, as comedians make jokes about it.
"What a fearful thing is it that any language should have a word expressive of the pleasure which men feel at the calamities of others; for the existence of the word bears testimony to the existence of the thing." ~ R. C. Trench Study of Words, 1852

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Well, yeah, it's sad he died, but he died for a stupid and preventable reason while encouraging people to eat in ways that pretty much lead straight to poor health and similar preventable deaths. I feel bad for his family, but the whole thing is ridiculous.

Maybe "Poetic justice" is a better term than "schadenfreude." Or is there a short phrase meaning "Intentionally constructed a situation in which a particular bad thing was pretty much inevitable and then had that particular bad thing happen?"

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:11 am 
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Desdemona wrote:
"What a fearful thing is it that any language should have a word expressive of the pleasure which men feel at the calamities of others; for the existence of the word bears testimony to the existence of the thing." ~ R. C. Trench Study of Words, 1852


In this case, I'm not feeling it either, but I do have to defend some well-placed schadenfreude. Oh, the joy I feel when some jackass on a bike who rings his bell and weaves between pedestrians in a pedestrian only area (in a town with ample bike lanes) gets stopped and ticketed. Or when some self-righteous, right-wing Christian Republican gets caught with his pants down. That shiitake to me is deserving of some schadenfreude.

This guys wasn't doing anything to harm anyone but himself. His death to me is more a tragic consequence of a society that glorifies gluttony over health than something that warrants our ridicule or scorn.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:34 am 
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solipsistnation wrote:
Well, yeah, it's sad he died, but he died for a stupid and preventable reason while encouraging people to eat in ways that pretty much lead straight to poor health and similar preventable deaths. I feel bad for his family, but the whole thing is ridiculous.

Maybe "Poetic justice" is a better term than "schadenfreude." Or is there a short phrase meaning "Intentionally constructed a situation in which a particular bad thing was pretty much inevitable and then had that particular bad thing happen?"


I don't think you can say that he definitely died because of his diet or anything like that, you're not a doctor and for all you know heart disease runs in his family and even with a careful diet he might have had the same thing happen. I guess I'm uber sensitive about this stuff these days, because of the all the health franchise gurus claiming you can prevent disease by diet.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:56 am 
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Quarantined wrote:
I don't think you can say that he definitely died because of his diet or anything like that, you're not a doctor and for all you know heart disease runs in his family and even with a careful diet he might have had the same thing happen. I guess I'm uber sensitive about this stuff these days, because of the all the health franchise gurus claiming you can prevent disease by diet.


This!

I have really high cholesterol despite being vegan for 7 years! It is a source of incredible frustration that people post that veganism will save you from cholesterol when the cholesterol in your body is primarily made by your body and not ingested from foodstuffs.

I hate it when people push an agenda by touting health benefits. Its not just vegans either, the BFing community I am part of, really pushes the idea that BFing will save you from breast cancer (someone posted a problematic study showing that if you BF 3 children for a year each your risk of cancer drops by 90%). Its just not that simple - my mother died of breast cancer, and I think its messed up to even imply that she could still be alive, had she only breastfed me.

I have a hard time with the Darwin Awards too - its sad when someone dies because it affects the people who loved that person, even if they were 100% to blame for their deaths and incredibly stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:05 am 
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I think - no, I hope you misunderstood the term schadenfreude, it literally means enjoying the harm of others.


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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:36 am 
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smoothie wrote:
I think - no, I hope you misunderstood the term schadenfreude, it literally means enjoying the harm of others.


Thanks to the Broadway musical Avenue Q, Americans have been familiar with the meaning of schadenfreude since about 2003.


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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:22 am 
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lepelaar wrote:
This guys wasn't doing anything to harm anyone but himself. His death to me is more a tragic consequence of a society that glorifies gluttony over health than something that warrants our ridicule or scorn.


He was a tout for the restaurant. He stood outside and encouraged people to go in.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:22 am 
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choirqueer wrote:
Thanks to the Broadway musical Avenue Q, Americans have been familiar with the meaning of schadenfreude since about 2003.


I have never seen this.

Since I'm apparently a bad person, does anyone have a phrase for me? I don't think it's just "irony."

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:38 am 
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It's more like the opposite of irony - the exact thing happened to him that you would expect to happen to him, even if his lifestyle didn't cause the bad thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:13 pm 
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solipsistnation wrote:
choirqueer wrote:
Thanks to the Broadway musical Avenue Q, Americans have been familiar with the meaning of schadenfreude since about 2003.


I have never seen this.

Since I'm apparently a bad person, does anyone have a phrase for me? I don't think it's just "irony."


I don't think you're a bad person, but I will give you the word you are looking for. I wish I could take credit, but a friend of a friend made it up.

Exprised- That feeling you feel when you fully expected something to happen, but are a bit surprised when it actually happens anyway.

Example- I was exprised to learn that Whitney Houston died of a drug overdose.


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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:15 pm 
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Aw shiitake, sniglets.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:02 pm 
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Schadenfreude aside, it hardly takes a leap to conclude this person died (at least partly) as a result of his diet. If a smoker dies of lung cancer, assuming the two are related is a reasonable conclusion. Sure, the person could have some genetic predisposition to developing lung cancer, regardless of exposure to cigarette smoke. Or a lucky smoker could have some built-in no-get-cancer genes. (Let's also leave aside whether we should be speculating about the cause of anyone's death.)

Of course eating a vegan diet will not INSURE you don't get cancer, high cholesterol, heart disease, or diabetes. Anyone who says that is silly. Life is complicated, and bodies are complicated.

But of course your diet plays a large role in your health and the diseases you are more or less susceptible to.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:13 pm 
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More sniglets:

Veinglory - excessive pride in your own risk factors for heart disease
Glumuppance - feeling bad that you kind of think someone deserved the terrible thing that happened to them
Batinfreude - laughing at someone when their mom catches them masturbating

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:18 pm 
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DEG wrote:
Exprised- That feeling you feel when you fully expected something to happen, but are a bit surprised when it actually happens anyway.

Example- I was exprised to learn that Whitney Houston died of a drug overdose.


That's an awesome word. Sounds about right to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:21 pm 
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mumbles wrote:
More sniglets:

Veinglory - excessive pride in your own risk factors for heart disease
Glumuppance - feeling bad that you kind of think someone deserved the terrible thing that happened to them
Batinfreude - laughing at someone when their mom catches them masturbating
Ah, Dr Johnson!


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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:17 am 
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choirqueer wrote:
smoothie wrote:
I think - no, I hope you misunderstood the term schadenfreude, it literally means enjoying the harm of others.


Thanks to the Broadway musical Avenue Q, Americans have been familiar with the meaning of schadenfreude since about 2003.


And I've only seen it used on the PPK as a word.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:24 am 
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FootFace wrote:
Schadenfreude aside, it hardly takes a leap to conclude this person died (at least partly) as a result of his diet. If a smoker dies of lung cancer, assuming the two are related is a reasonable conclusion. Sure, the person could have some genetic predisposition to developing lung cancer, regardless of exposure to cigarette smoke. Or a lucky smoker could have some built-in no-get-cancer genes. (Let's also leave aside whether we should be speculating about the cause of anyone's death.)

Of course eating a vegan diet will not INSURE you don't get cancer, high cholesterol, heart disease, or diabetes. Anyone who says that is silly. Life is complicated, and bodies are complicated.

But of course your diet plays a large role in your health and the diseases you are more or less susceptible to.


I don't think that is fair because you don't know what he ate and even then. Both his parents died of heart attacks in their 50s. He loved the grill but perhaps he had a simple hamburger every day? I mean, something fairly normal for someone who eats meat. Unless you want to say he died because he ate meat? He wasn't obese. So maybe he was eating the 9,000 calorie sandwich every day and had a high metabolism but you really don't know what he ate other than he would eat at this location that served burgers and fries.

I know people who LOVE 5 guys around here, may go every day, they aren't having the huge burgers but just burgers. Something 'normal' for the average American.

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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:47 am 
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FootFace wrote:
Schadenfreude aside, it hardly takes a leap to conclude this person died (at least partly) as a result of his diet. If a smoker dies of lung cancer, assuming the two are related is a reasonable conclusion. Sure, the person could have some genetic predisposition to developing lung cancer, regardless of exposure to cigarette smoke. Or a lucky smoker could have some built-in no-get-cancer genes. (Let's also leave aside whether we should be speculating about the cause of anyone's death.)

Of course eating a vegan diet will not INSURE you don't get cancer, high cholesterol, heart disease, or diabetes. Anyone who says that is silly. Life is complicated, and bodies are complicated.

But of course your diet plays a large role in your health and the diseases you are more or less susceptible to.


As a former smoker, I'm pretty much on board with this. Really bad lungs run in my family and my mom, who has never smoked (but lived most of her life with people who did) is having a terrible time with breathing now. I've had a few distantish relatives die of lung cancer. So, now, if I wind up with lung cancer or emphysema or COPD I'm sure it has a lot to do with genetics. And a lot to do with the fact that I smoked for over a decade, too. I made really poor decisions knowing my genetic disposition. Same thing with mine and my husband's grandfathers and their early heart attacks...sure, we're prone to heart disease, but we acknowledge that our diets and (non-existent) exercise habits play into our chances of following the same fate.

I know it's a fine line between victim blaming and I don't take comfort or amusement in peoples' deaths. At the same time, having many of the same genetic patterns in my family, I recognize that I'm not going to eat at a place making light of heart attacks every day, either. A defense of eating burgers every day as normal may be true, but I'm pretty sure the medical profession would advise against doing so, even if they were smaller burgers.


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 Post subject: Re: Today's schadenfreude
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:22 pm 
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It's forked up to make light of heart attacks--including doing so by naming a restaurant heart attack grill. So yeah, there's definitely some situational irony here. That doesn't make this death any less tragic or any less of a loss.
I don't like it when vegans/health conscious people act as if anyone deserves to suffer or die early because of health choices, I also don't like the fork-it culture that leads to calling hamburgers things like widow-makers.


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