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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:51 pm 
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It doesn't have to be YOUR child, just a child. That is the cost of entrance to most playgrounds :) Although I think men would be looked at more suspiciously than a woman but I think either way, if you are an adult not accompanying a child and are at a playground, people will stare.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:54 pm 
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But if you're a guy going to a playground where the other parents know the kids you're with and don't know you...you can expect some serious fat hate.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:08 pm 
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EmperorTomatoKetchup wrote:
i agree with a lot of what's been said here. i would also like to point out that some of these photos (using with her phone in the middle of a Times Square crosswalk; reading a map right outside the World Trade Center PATH station) were taken in very busy, high-traffic areas. i would probably be shooting a death glare if i were one of the passersby - it really annoys me when anybody stops and impedes the flow of people in a crowded place without at least trying to pull to the side or something.

Seriously. I give people dirty looks all the time. And I am judging them. But it's mostly because they're in my way, not because of how they look.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:15 pm 
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In a lot of these pictures, I'd be thinking "forking tourist!"

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:53 pm 
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I dunno, I think everyone gets at least stared at a bit, some more than others. I don't think a series of photos is definitive proof that it is happening purely because of her weight or the way she looked. As people have said in some of them she is stopped in weird places. The middle of a road is prime example. I'm sorry, but anyone stopped in the middle of a pedestrian crossing is going to get weird looks no matter what way they look! As for some of the photos you can't tell for sure if the people are looking at her, they could be looking at something in the distance, like a man streaking, and it just happens to be in the same eyeline of her.

And how do we know that in some of them she hasn't let off a ripper of a fart just beforehand?! I only say that because that would be something that would definitely make me look at someone in disgust!

Also, she is opening herself to a legal minefield by photographing and publishing photos that contain an under 18 person without the written consent of a parent.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:34 pm 
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linanil wrote:
It doesn't have to be YOUR child, just a child. That is the cost of entrance to most playgrounds :) Although I think men would be looked at more suspiciously than a woman but I think either way, if you are an adult not accompanying a child and are at a playground, people will stare.


I love that psych episode where Shawn goes to the park, pretends to be a nanny, and freaks all the mothers out.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:41 pm 
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daisychain wrote:
And how do we know that in some of them she hasn't let off a ripper of a fart just beforehand?! I only say that because that would be something that would definitely make me look at someone in disgust!


And you call yourself a vegan?!

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Mars wrote:
Naysayer Mars Time but honestly whenever I see anyone talking a photo of someone else I find it really hard not to look, and most of those faces seemed like just passerby's trying to get a look. I think it's pretty rude to be shaming these people who are just out and about their business. The idea of the project is great, and some photos do seem to show people being judgmental, but it bothers me that that it's being implied that all the looks are cruel.

This. I look at people all the time, not because they're especially fat or thin or beautiful or ugly, but just because they're in my line of vision. That's not to say that heavy people aren't judged sometimes, but I wouldn't read these images that way. Like the one of the young girl laughing just looks to me like a girl who's having a funny conversation and happens to glance at that woman in the moment. It creates awareness of an issue some people have probably never considered though, so in that sense it's interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:10 pm 
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i've given myself dirtier "what the hell is wrong with you?" looks than any of the people in these pictures are sporting. since this morning, in fact. it's easy and tempting to infer judgment because we're prepped for it by the context, but there's no way to know what's really going on. i am going to be especially self-conscious about my facial expressions when i'm staring off into space on the subway from now on, though. maybe i'll start a photo project about people making faces at me because they've misinterpreted my face.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:25 pm 
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acr wrote:
i am going to be especially self-conscious about my facial expressions when i'm staring off into space on the subway from now on, though. maybe i'll start a photo project about people making faces at me because they've misinterpreted my face.

and who knows? maybe some of the people captured on camera suffer from chronic bitchface.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:11 pm 
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i'm pretty sure i have chronic bitchface. i'm feeling a lot of face shame right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:21 pm 
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acr wrote:
i'm pretty sure i have chronic bitchface. i'm feeling a lot of face shame right now.

Aww no shame! own that bitchface. There could be perks. I bet people are less likely to mess with you if they think you're pissed.


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Yeah, I definitely have chronic bitchface and have since I was a little kid. I'm sure I always look really disapproving when I happen to glance at someone! When I was in school, the teacher called me up to her desk one day to ask a question about my paper. She looked at me and asked why I looked so angry. I said, "I'm not angry," and she said, "Then why are you looking at me like that?! Like you want to kill me!" I kept saying, "This is just what I look like! I'm not angry at you!" She wouldn't believe me.


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:41 pm 
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joyfulgirl wrote:
acr wrote:
i'm pretty sure i have chronic bitchface. i'm feeling a lot of face shame right now.

Aww no shame! own that bitchface. There could be perks. I bet people are less likely to mess with you if they think you're pissed.

i like that you're telling me to work it instead of trying to convince me that it isn't there or that i can overcome it, because i think you're one of the few ppkers who's seen it in action.

rc, mine dates back to childhood, too. there isn't a single picture of me between the ages of 0 and 6 or so where i'm not making a dour scowlyface, even when i'm posing and was probably being told to smile.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:00 pm 
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I appreciate the goal of this project, but it just seems so iffy. I make all sorts of horrible faces when I'm walking around or noticing things or not noticing things or whatever. I'm glad I don't have to see these faces I make, because I can make some awful faces and seem to have no control over this (I almost got suspended in elementary school because three of my teachers complained about the disrespectful faces I made at them all day long; meek, obedient me had no idea). Someone could follow me around and do a photo essay on why I am so cruel and judgmental regarding everything I passed. So, I guess I'm just agreeing that while the goal of this project is laudable, I think the execution can be a bit tricky.

ETA: unless assuming people were going to be horrible was the foundation of the project

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:22 pm 
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acr wrote:
joyfulgirl wrote:
acr wrote:
i'm pretty sure i have chronic bitchface. i'm feeling a lot of face shame right now.

Aww no shame! own that bitchface. There could be perks. I bet people are less likely to mess with you if they think you're pissed.

i like that you're telling me to work it instead of trying to convince me that it isn't there or that i can overcome it, because i think you're one of the few ppkers who's seen it in action.

For the record, I don't remember a bitchface on you, but I'm also not the photographic memory type. In any case, I know I only had happy feelings after meeting you, so I'd say your personality is positive enough to overcome any negative facial expression.


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:24 pm 
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acr wrote:
i've given myself dirtier "what the hell is wrong with you?" looks than any of the people in these pictures are sporting. since this morning, in fact. it's easy and tempting to infer judgment because we're prepped for it by the context, but there's no way to know what's really going on. i am going to be especially self-conscious about my facial expressions when i'm staring off into space on the subway from now on, though. maybe i'll start a photo project about people making faces at me because they've misinterpreted my face.


I think that's part of the point though? The people looking at her become the focus, not her. And I don't think she said she thinks EVERYONE is judging, but even the one or two that are can colour how we view the rest. Which I do think is fair, people can feel awkward and uncomfortable about even innocent gazes when other gazes have been so hurtful. Like, there's a bus stop here that I think would be great for such a project, because its kind of on a bare road where there's no buildings behind you, just a small field, and you're close to the road and traffic is slow, and people GAWK at you from their cars. All of them! Maybe its innocent and I know I'm the only thing to look at, but its incredibly uncomfortable, especially since once these dudebros in a car thought it would be a great opportunity to sexually harass me. And it just makes it even more painful when people look because I now fear they'll do the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:32 pm 
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I had to read the article again because everyone seems pretty hung up on the weight component of the project (everyone including some of the comments I read on the article). And it does not appear that she's accusing everyone of being judgemental, she's just hoping to get reactions and capture them, whether they be because of her weight or just because she's standing in a sort of terrible spot looking at nothing in particular. This may have started because she noticed people being crassholes because of her weight, but that's not the focus of the entire project. I think it's neat.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:36 am 
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so, first: I pretty much look at everything as though it were being presented during a critique, and I have to say that this project begs to have more set ups, more photographs, and exponentially more editing (not like, photoediting, but like taking a huge quantity of these images and picking the ones which best illustrate the concept.) some of these do miss the mark slightly, but...

Moon wrote:
I had to read the article again because everyone seems pretty hung up on the weight component of the project (everyone including some of the comments I read on the article). And it does not appear that she's accusing everyone of being judgemental.


and I agree with Moon, I absolutely read this project as being not necessarily the negative/judgmental way people notice her, but more the inescapable noticeability of being someone outside of the norm in public.
I fall within society's range of "acceptable fat" (which is bullshiitake imo) but I also happen to be exceptionally tall for a woman (6'1") because of this (not a model+very tall+obviously female), I cannot go outside without catching someone staring at me. most of the time it is innocent, but it is still rough. the impossibility of being anonymous because of your body, something you cannot just cover with a long jacket or pair of sunglasses is something that can be profoundly affecting psychologically.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:46 am 
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well, i think people got hung up on the weight component because the article the OP links to opens with this:

"Memphis-based photographer Haley Morris-Cafiero has long been aware of strangers making fun of her behind her back due to her size. So aware, in fact, that she has turned the whole concept into a full-blown photography project."

later in that article (i'm just now noticing this), the artist is quoted as saying, "The images capture the gazer in a microsecond moment where they, for unknowable reasons, have a look on their face that questions my presence." but the title of the series and the artist's personal statement about it on her website make it clear that she thinks her weight is what draws their gaze. i was mocked and ostracized for being fat throughout my entire childhood, and now no matter what i look like, i'll always be self-conscious and paranoid and expecting rejection, so i understand the feelings underlying the project, and i empathize with haley. but i also acknowledge that it's unfair for me to project my negative feelings onto potentially innocent people. i think that if there's no way to know what these people were thinking, or whether they're even looking at her (in some of the photos it really isn't crystal clear), there's a problem with presenting the work as a study of people questioning her presence. maybe some of them are thinking exactly what she's afraid they're thinking, but some of them might not be noticing her at all. those one or two jerks do color how we view the rest, but shouldn't we fight that?

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:18 am 
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To be honest I didn't look at her personal site, so I'm definitely not seeing the entire picture. But even the name "Wait Watchers" read to me as being about weight but also.... You know..... People watching people waiting. LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:31 am 
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While the idea is good, the execution is poor and seems pretty manipulating to me. In some of the shots it looks like she's went out of her way to attract attention. I think some of those looks could be put down to "what the fizzle is that woman doing?". That makes me uncomfortable about the whole thing. As an event photographer I catch really baaaaaad photos of people all the time, images that can make some really nice people look demonic. It can be easy to manipulate photographs, it irks me to think anyone might do it to shame people.


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:42 am 
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acr wrote:
i'm pretty sure i have chronic bitchface. i'm feeling a lot of face shame right now.


I just spit water onto my desk. THANKS A LOT, BITCHFACE.

I also have chronic bitchface. My husband tells me I often look angry. I'm just smizing!

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:48 am 
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I agree that while the idea is good and it probably does happen in real life, from these pictures I think only one could be interpreted as someone making fun of her (the cops one). All the others to me look like people going about their business and looking in her direction, but not necessarily (if at all) at her.
Sounds a bit of a paranoid project.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:04 pm 
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acr wrote:

rc, mine dates back to childhood, too. there isn't a single picture of me between the ages of 0 and 6 or so where i'm not making a dour scowlyface, even when i'm posing and was probably being told to smile.


We may need a support group. In the handful of pictures where I'm smiling it is obviously fake and coerced. And I'm so tired of answering "what's wrong" at this point in my life I just want to make shiitake up.

Anyway, as far as the project, I'm pretty much on board with a lot of other comments. Fat shaming or "outside the norm" judgment is a real thing, but she executes the demonstration of it poorly. Even if the project isn't really supposed to be about her weight, the title and the back story both point to size, not just something occurring generally outside the norm. For most of them, I see totally valid things people may be looking at.

Also, combined with my CBF discussed above and my habit to people watch, I probably look totally like I'm scowling at people all the time. Which I may be, but not because of weight.

The only pictures that stood out to me involved teen girls laughing. I checked the site and I'm guessing the cops knew there was a camera because cop #2 seems to be looking toward it. It is a kind of what the fizzle pic, but once more, I need context.


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