| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:26 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:23 am 
Offline
Discovered unobtainium
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 pm
Posts: 12095
Location: Dinosaur Stampede
Honestly, I'm just too exhausted from my own experiences to think about hers. Self-centered, but I can't crawl out of my own head on this issue. Hell, I still can't correctly visualize my own skin. If I go to a store that has crowded racks, I still will not try to walk through because I assume I won't fit, even though my hips are 10+" smaller now. It's not that I think I won't fit so much as panic at the idea of trying and failing. I once failed a college class because I couldn't fit in the tiny desk, so after everybody was done tittering, I slunk out, left, never returned. Took me 4 more years to try again.

People will always resent fat people for taking up space, whether they realize it or not. Example: if you are in an airplane, it's horrific that you dare to take up too much space. However, the flight I was on where the woman next to me had a kid of her lap who kicked, screamed, and fussed into my space? I was a bisque for not being more tolerant. All sorts of crepe about how parents might not be able to afford kid tickets, blah blah blah. Nobody stands up for fat people like that.

(please nobody think I'm tarring everybody with the same brush--obviosuly I'm generalizing here. Everybody in the universe isn't a crasshole.)

_________________
"This is the creepiest post ever if you don't know who Molly is." -Fee
"a vegan death match sounds like something where we all end up hugging." -LisaPunk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:32 am 
Offline
Just Loathin' Around!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 7228
Location: bindlestiff
hoveringdog™ wrote:
Unless I missed something, I don't see anywhere in her stated intention where she suggests that she's capturing documentary evidence of fat shaming behavior either. In fact, she's explicitly agnostic about whether they're looking at her because of her body size or merely because she's in their way standing in front of a camera:
Quote:
The images capture the gazer in a microsecond moment where they, for unknowable reasons, have a look on their face that questions my presence. Whether they are questioning my position in front of the lens or questioning my body size, the gazer appears to be visually troubled that I am in front of them [emphasis mine].


This is also mentioned in the article: "and her hope is that the image also captures an interesting expression from at least one passing stranger"

And this is directly from her about section on her website related to the Wait Watchers project:
"I have always been aware of people making faces, commenting and laughing at me about my size. I now reverse the gaze and record their reactions to me while I perform mundane tasks in public spaces. I seek out spaces that are visually interesting and geographically diverse. I try to place myself in compositions that contain feminine icons or advertisements.

Otherwise, I position myself and the camera in a pool of people…and wait."

It sounds to me more that she's interested in capturing people's reactions to her positioning in public space. The title is a nice play on words but the weight issue seems to be of secondary concern. Part of the point could quite possibly be that you can't tell what the people are making those faces about. And as you navigate public spaces all sorts of people get all sorts of looks and how can you tell what look is for what purpose? And then how do you navigate in that space when at least some of those looks are not so friendly.
It is fascinating that people jumped to the conclusion that she's trying to "shame" the subjects in the photos, when she never uses that word at all. I think she's also quite successfully turned the gaze onto the viewer of the photographs because so many people have automatically started defending themselves and the looks they give while in public. Part of that success seems to be from how quickly and easy it has been to project the viewer into the space.

_________________
Ovoids=not vegan --invictus

Panda With Cookie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:37 am 
Offline
Dr Bronners, MD
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:58 pm
Posts: 4717
Location: Santa Cruz whoop whoop
pandacookie wrote:
It is fascinating that people jumped to the conclusion that she's trying to "shame" the subjects in the photos, when she never uses that word at all. I think she's also quite successfully turned the gaze onto the viewer of the photographs because so many people have automatically started defending themselves and the looks they give while in public. Part of that success seems to be from how quickly and easy it has been to project the viewer into the space.


Ha, yeah. After my last post, I was thinking that if it has elicited this much of a response, it's not a failure as art.

_________________
"Trolling an internet message board, The Greatest Activism Of All." - pandacookie
Вы такие сексапильные, когда злитесь


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:00 am 
Offline
Has it on Blue Vinyl
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:44 pm
Posts: 2147
I'm not sure if she is or isn't trying to shame anyone, but the fact that she doesn't use the word shame isn't evidence against it. Lots of shaming happens without using the word shame. She titles her pictures "wait watchers" which I found kind of interesting because she is waiting for the watchers who are watching her weight. I'm not sure that any of these pictures are actually of someone looking at her because of her weight, but I think it is an interesting enough project, because that clearly happens and she is trying to capture that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:19 am 
Offline
Had sex with a vampire that sparkles.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:24 pm
Posts: 5383
Location: BRLA
I know why I feel like those people are being shamed - and some of them unfairly. Because when I was sixteen I was sitting in a diner with my friends, it was late and we were sixteen and everything was funny. One of my friends said something that cracked me up. A few seconds later a bus boy walked by and called me a bisque. I realized he had just dropped his tray of dishes and thought I was laughing at him. I still think about that, that some random dude thought I was a bisque in that moment that I hadn't really done anything wrong. And if that moment were captured on tape and put up on the Internet, no one might ever see it from my perspective and so most people that would see it would just think I was a bisque and I hate that thought.

_________________
The thing about this thread is, it's dumb. - IJDI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:40 am 
Offline
WRETCHED
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:54 pm
Posts: 8540
Location: Maryland/DC area
pandacookie wrote:
"I have always been aware of people making faces, commenting and laughing at me about my size. I now reverse the gaze and record their reactions to me while I perform mundane tasks in public spaces. I seek out spaces that are visually interesting and geographically diverse. I try to place myself in compositions that contain feminine icons or advertisements.

Otherwise, I position myself and the camera in a pool of people…and wait."


And this is obviously why I think she is trying to catch people making faces because of her size. Of course, I think all of us recognize that there are instances that if we were caught in the picture, we might be making a face for various reasons but I can say personally that it wouldn't be because of someone's size. She definitely seems to place herself places where she will get looks (for the most part). Even someone turning their head to look at her wouldn't necessarily mean it is due to her size but things like "hey do I know that person" or "I am turning to look at something else" or whatever. And as I said before, obviously her experiences have colored her view so someone not making faces or making fun of her could be interpreted by her to being doing that due to her past experiences.

And you are right that she has successfully turned the gaze to other people in the picture, but for what purpose? To question their motives or to think what she might think of their motives based on her past experiences? And even people who you think might be looking at her, might not be but who knows?

_________________
You are all a disgrace to vegans. Go f*ck yourselves, especially linanil.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:53 am 
Offline
No-pants hermit 4 lyfe
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 3127
Location: BKLN
i've been looking for more of haley's comments on her own work. in this article, she says, "I've heard people make comments on my weight, but I never thought I'd be able to capture that on film," which makes it seem like she believes that's a not-insignificant component of what she's documenting. but later there's this:

" 'Some people are extremely critical because they feel like I'm being dishonest, saying non-fat people are making fun of me,' but that's not what the photos are about, she said. 'I am saying identity is tied to image in some way — it could be my shape, size, clothes, the color of my skin. As the artist, I pose the question and the viewer makes the answer. . . . I think it's a barometer of society, really.' "

and that's a better description. but we still have to buy the premise that these looks are motivated by her appearance, and some people don't. some people aren't sure she's being looked at in some of these photos. that isn't a dismissal of her experience; it's art criticism. if it were presented as a piece designed to show us what it's like to be afraid that everyone is judging you, i'd say it was successful. maybe if we'd been shown the pictures with no commentary, we'd all be on the same page. but my interpretation of her own comments about it is that she is trying to show us actual judgment, not fear of judgment, and i'm not convinced that that's what i'm looking at. i've already said in this thread that i have no interest in belittling her experience, because i've shared it. but i don't think i should have to second-guess my assessment of a photography project because i'm not giving sufficient consideration to the artist's feelings. that's not how i approach art. i guess if the artist's feelings are of primary importance to you, you might have a different take on this series.

_________________
"rise from the ashes of douchebaggery like a fancy vegan phoenix" - amandabear
"I'm pretty sure the moral of this story is: fork pants." - cq


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:00 am 
Offline
No-pants hermit 4 lyfe
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 3127
Location: BKLN
Fee wrote:
I know why I feel like those people are being shamed - and some of them unfairly. Because when I was sixteen I was sitting in a diner with my friends, it was late and we were sixteen and everything was funny. One of my friends said something that cracked me up. A few seconds later a bus boy walked by and called me a bisque. I realized he had just dropped his tray of dishes and thought I was laughing at him. I still think about that, that some random dude thought I was a bisque in that moment that I hadn't really done anything wrong. And if that moment were captured on tape and put up on the Internet, no one might ever see it from my perspective and so most people that would see it would just think I was a bisque and I hate that thought.

yeah, i've been thinking about how much i'd hate to be immortalized on film as a mean judgy person when in that captured moment i was actually reacting to a car horn or an unusual pair of shoes or one of the many pockets of hot-trash-peepee aroma one encounters in nyc.

_________________
"rise from the ashes of douchebaggery like a fancy vegan phoenix" - amandabear
"I'm pretty sure the moral of this story is: fork pants." - cq


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:11 am 
Offline
Just Loathin' Around!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 7228
Location: bindlestiff
acr wrote:
and that's a better description. but we still have to buy the premise that these looks are motivated by her appearance, and some people don't. some people aren't sure she's being looked at in some of these photos.

That could well be a (the) point and I think fee's anecdote points to that. Identity in a public space is an interesting thing and plenty of artists mine that. It's great ground for discussion because everyone has an opinion because nearly everyone experiences that.

_________________
Ovoids=not vegan --invictus

Panda With Cookie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:15 am 
Offline
Just Loathin' Around!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 7228
Location: bindlestiff
solipsistnation wrote:
pandacookie wrote:
It is fascinating that people jumped to the conclusion that she's trying to "shame" the subjects in the photos, when she never uses that word at all. I think she's also quite successfully turned the gaze onto the viewer of the photographs because so many people have automatically started defending themselves and the looks they give while in public. Part of that success seems to be from how quickly and easy it has been to project the viewer into the space.


Ha, yeah. After my last post, I was thinking that if it has elicited this much of a response, it's not a failure as art.

For me, some of the best art is stuff I don't even like visually but is the stuff that makes me think or the stuff I don't like at all. I prefer something that gets the brain working as opposed to something easy. It can be a fine line as an artist to give the viewer enough to get that to happen without simply banging one over the head with a Statement. I like documentaries in the same way. Some of the best give you enough of 2 sides of a story to make you realize you don't necessarily know what to think.

_________________
Ovoids=not vegan --invictus

Panda With Cookie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Woman Photographs Herself Receiving Strange Looks in Pub
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:39 am 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 3561
Location: It's hot. All the time.
I can't stop wondering if provoking this sort of discussion is not part of her purpose.

Shaming the people looking at her seems to me to be too simplistic.

_________________
A whole lot of access and privilege goes into being sanctimonious pricks J-Dub
Dessert is currently a big bowl of sanctimonious, passive aggressive vegan enduced boak. Fezza
You people are way less funny than Pandacookie. Sucks to be you.-interrobang?!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Desdemona, VeganinBerlin and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer