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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:57 am 
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The front page of The Sun. Sickening.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:37 am 
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I really liked thispost about how the case is being handled. It really bothers me that most of the articles I read focus so much on him, especially pointing out his running past, as if it has any bearing at all in this situation. I don't need this forker's career highlight reel.

Also, I've seen gun crime stats attached to it, but I haven't seen in domestic violence stats. How many non-models who were married to/partnered with non-celebrity non-athletes were victims of domestic violence on the same day?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:38 am 
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This article is also good on the subject, touch ing a bit more widely on the horrors of The Sun http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... front-page

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:00 am 
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Wow, I don't even know what to say, that is horrible. I mean, I guess you wouldn't expect anything better from tabloids but we should.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:24 am 
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I agree that it's awful how a young woman's violent death has been turned into a pity-fest for her famous boyfriend/accused killer. I would hasten to point out, however, that he still has a court trial to face. I don't know anything about how the legal system in South Africa works, but I personally believe in the American ethic of innocent until proven guilty. There have been very few details about the death released (at least that I've seen, and I am not following the story very closely), and there are rumors that he mistook her for an intruder. Unfortunately, the odds are on him doing it, which is horrific and tragic, and I'll be the first to condemn him if that is indeed the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:10 am 
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There is no doubt that someone is innocent until proven guilty but I think using her body to sell paper is pretty horrid. I mean, is that normal? Find the most seductive picture you can of the victim and put that on the front cover?

And like Rachel said, articles in general are focused on him and his career. Why not focused on the person that was murdered? Whether it was accidental (as he claims?) or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:10 am 
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linanil wrote:
There is no doubt that someone is innocent until proven guilty but I think using her body to sell paper is pretty horrid. I mean, is that normal? Find the most seductive picture you can of the victim and put that on the front cover?

And like Rachel said, articles in general are focused on him and his career. Why not focused on the person that was murdered? Whether it was accidental (as he claims?) or not.


Absolutely agree 100%. I only meant we should hold off on calling him nasty names and that sort of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:50 pm 
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8ball wrote:
Women challenge my feminism, when they belittle other women in some sort of point scoring activity.


Yeah, that's the worst.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:24 am 
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Shy Mox wrote:
kimba wrote:
Nothing is wrong with wanting to feel protected, I don't think that it at all what Shy Mox was saying. It seems like she was pretty clear about what she meant - correlation with hostile sexism, victim blaming, etc.


Yeah, and it was clear what they meant: They like to have a man in their life to protect them...from other men. And we were very clear in why benevolent sexism (women are weak and need protection) is a very bad thing and correlates positively with hostile sexist attitudes.

In more news on the same course, they're also very cissexist. I really do not enjoy the discussion parts of this course.

I guess they have a right to their life style. I still think if admitted or not, a man in ones life can mean protection. Of coarse it can also mean great risk. And unfortunately some of these women may find themselves on their own in later years. And not knowing what the blank they are going to do.

I can certainly think of more than a few times the physical presence of a man around could have been of a great benefit to me.

I wonder, is a man opening a door for a woman benevolent sexism or a common courtesy to another human being? I sometimes wonder where it starts and ends. I don't think any woman should marry or have children until they could support themselves and any offspring on their own. But I doubt that will every happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Quote:
I wonder, is a man opening a door for a woman benevolent sexism or a common courtesy to another human being?


I always think about this, and I sometimes find that I challenge my own feminism by pausing for the man to open the door if we both approach it at the same time. The pause happens before I have time to think about it, and is very brief as I will reach out to open the door for myself unless he offers or is in a better position to do so. But if I approach with another woman there is definitely not such a pause.

Hmmm...

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:50 pm 
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candy wrote:
Shy Mox wrote:
kimba wrote:
Nothing is wrong with wanting to feel protected, I don't think that it at all what Shy Mox was saying. It seems like she was pretty clear about what she meant - correlation with hostile sexism, victim blaming, etc.


Yeah, and it was clear what they meant: They like to have a man in their life to protect them...from other men. And we were very clear in why benevolent sexism (women are weak and need protection) is a very bad thing and correlates positively with hostile sexist attitudes.

In more news on the same course, they're also very cissexist. I really do not enjoy the discussion parts of this course.

I guess they have a right to their life style. I still think if admitted or not, a man in ones life can mean protection. Of coarse it can also mean great risk. And unfortunately some of these women may find themselves on their own in later years. And not knowing what the blank they are going to do.

I can certainly think of more than a few times the physical presence of a man around could have been of a great benefit to me.

I wonder, is a man opening a door for a woman benevolent sexism or a common courtesy to another human being? I sometimes wonder where it starts and ends. I don't think any woman should marry or have children until they could support themselves and any offspring on their own. But I doubt that will every happen.


When my boyfriend was visiting last I noticed I got no catcalls whatsoever, which is weird for the areas we were in, and its bullshiitake. I should be able to walk around unescorted by a cisman without getting yelled at or my safety threatened. Part of this "you need a man for protection" crepe is the other side of the coin, "and you deserve what you get if you don't have one."

Yes, it is benevolent sexism if you only open doors to women. I open doors for men, women or other, because its a polite thing to do. Whoever gets to the door first/whoever's closer to the handle should do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:15 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
When my boyfriend was visiting last I noticed I got no catcalls whatsoever, which is weird for the areas we were in, and its bullshiitake. I should be able to walk around unescorted by a cisman without getting yelled at or my safety threatened. Part of this "you need a man for protection" crepe is the other side of the coin, "and you deserve what you get if you don't have one."


Shy Mox wrote:

When my boyfriend was visiting last I noticed I got no catcalls whatsoever, which is weird for the areas we were in, and its bullshiitake. I should be able to walk around unescorted by a cisman without getting yelled at or my safety threatened. Part of this "you need a man for protection" crepe is the other side of the coin, "and you deserve what you get if you don't have one."


I was recently walking with my boyfriend and a guy was making rude comments about my body, my legs, and acknowledging I was with someone, "some guys have all the luck." My boyfriend didn't bother to engage the guy, which was probably the wiser thing to do, and I said something about the guy being rude, but me being nothing but a pair of legs, he didn't really hear me. I found myself resentful that this stranger hadn't even bothered to respect the fact that I was obviously with someone, then of course immediately was disgusted with myself for having that thought.

I totally agree that we should be able to walk around at any time of day or night in any neighborhood wearing and doing whatever the hell we want. But there times when I am tempted by any respite from street harassment, even if it's through benevolent sexism or some sort of "bro code" or some other shiitake.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:43 pm 
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This might totally just be me and my own head, but I feel better with a woman or in groups of women than I do with a man or groups of men. When I'm with other women and the harassment happens we like...know to have each others backs. They get it.

When I'm with my boyfriend and someone says something to me I freeze up, I feel embarrassed, I'm awkward, he's awkward. He doesn't want to speak for me because he knows I can do it for myself, but you know...most of the time no response is the best response. And a group of guys + me and someone says something inappropriate to me? Forget it, they all sit there staring at me waiting for me to do something and I got nothin. Am I supposed to have something?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:11 am 
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Apparently midwifery qualifications aren't transferable the way MD qualifications are. A colleague just said that her friend who trained as a midwife in either Australia or NZ wasn't allowed to practice as a midwife in the UK, but she was allowed to work on the neo-natal unit at the hospital (presumably as a nurse). She would've had to qualify specifically for the UK.

I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the vast majority of midwives are women, while most doctors are men.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:36 am 
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I think the US might be reversed. From what I understand, if you didn't go to medical school in the US and pass the US medical qualification tests, you can't practice medicine in the US. I think midwifery might a bit more transferable but I can't say for certain, you'd probably still have to take specific tests, maybe even a couple courses. It is why many MDs from other countries actually go into nursing in the US or become teachers because it is easier to do that then try to go through med school.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:40 am 
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i don't think that's true, linanil, because many of the doctors that i've looked up when trying to find a new one went to medical school in other countries.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:43 am 
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Weird because when I perused nursing forums, there were a lot of doctors from other countries and my anatomy teacher was a doctor from another country and she said she couldn't practice medicine here because it wasn't transferable. I'm wondering if there are certain countries where it is?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:51 am 
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oh, huh. i definitely don't know the actual rules, just what I've seen in doctors' profiles. also, i remember hearing, when i was doing pre-med, that a lot of people went to medical school in the carribbean because it's cheaper. yeah, maybe there are different rules for different countries.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:55 am 
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I looked it up and it appears that there are 2 things that have to happen:
1) you have to go to a school that is 'approved', there apparently is a listing but I couldn't find it
2) you have to pass the same exams (USMLE 1 & 2) as med students here pass. Apparently the statistics say that about 50% pass for those that went to an approved school.
3) (forgot this) You also have to fully document the years you've practiced medicine, your scope, etc, etc.

I also thought the Caribbean thing was a bit of a myth :) I guess not, if there are schools that are in the approved school list. I think the biggest factor is probably the school being in the approved list.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:00 am 
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Well, midwifery in the US is a strange thing. The laws vary so drastically state to state that in some states it is flat out illegal. In a couple midwifery is so loosely regulated that a midwife with no "official" training could practice. So I wonder if medical doctors are the same way.
(I used to work for a midwife magazine, spent more time researching ever changing rules...)

I do know of a couple of male midwives, who were driven out of the business because "they didn't belong". Which challenges my feminism as well. The truth is for me, based on my experiences, I want the medical provider I am most comfortable with. Sometimes that is a woman, sometimes not. Goodness knows I had a better experience with my male provider for my births than I did with my female prospective midwife.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Mansplainers.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Every time a contractor expects me not to go on a scaffold and do an inspection, because I'm a woman and therefore don't want to get dirty. Ugh.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Erika Soyf*cker wrote:
Shy Mox wrote:
When my boyfriend was visiting last I noticed I got no catcalls whatsoever, which is weird for the areas we were in, and its bullshiitake. I should be able to walk around unescorted by a cisman without getting yelled at or my safety threatened. Part of this "you need a man for protection" crepe is the other side of the coin, "and you deserve what you get if you don't have one."


Shy Mox wrote:

When my boyfriend was visiting last I noticed I got no catcalls whatsoever, which is weird for the areas we were in, and its bullshiitake. I should be able to walk around unescorted by a cisman without getting yelled at or my safety threatened. Part of this "you need a man for protection" crepe is the other side of the coin, "and you deserve what you get if you don't have one."


I was recently walking with my boyfriend and a guy was making rude comments about my body, my legs, and acknowledging I was with someone, "some guys have all the luck." My boyfriend didn't bother to engage the guy, which was probably the wiser thing to do, and I said something about the guy being rude, but me being nothing but a pair of legs, he didn't really hear me. I found myself resentful that this stranger hadn't even bothered to respect the fact that I was obviously with someone, then of course immediately was disgusted with myself for having that thought.

I totally agree that we should be able to walk around at any time of day or night in any neighborhood wearing and doing whatever the hell we want. But there times when I am tempted by any respite from street harassment, even if it's through benevolent sexism or some sort of "bro code" or some other shiitake.


Again, this is in the context of them saying benevolent sexism is a GOOD thing, they like expecting men to protect them and open doors for them, even though we just did a quiz (literally, the post was the second part of the assignment to do right after) that explained that levels of benevolent sexism are positively correlated with hostile sexism and the negative effects benevolent sexism has on people. I don't blame people for feeling more comfortable with someone, even a man, when they're alone. Its the "patriarchy makes my life easier, screw you" part that drives me insane.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:04 pm 
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I am in the unique position right now to do something about street harassment. I was just whistled/leered/waved at while walking on my university campus by someone who I'm 99% sure is working at a construction site on campus. I was too far away to get a license plate number of the guy's truck, so I can't hold anyone directly accountable. However, I could probably figure out who to contact to reprimand the company itself. Should I do it?

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Last edited by couroupita on Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:09 pm 
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I would. I was harassed by a guy in his employers truck a few months ago. He stopped by my car at a traffic light, honked so I'd look over and see that he was making obscene gestures. Then he followed my car honking for a bit. I felt so sick and unsafe, even though it was daylight.

So I called the employer and talked to them about how their driver was making their establishment look bad. Its a local pancake house too, so they took it seriously, especially when I told them my daughter was in the car with me. I feel like they get away with it all the time with no repercussions, which is why they continue to do it. Even a little consequence is a needed reminder that its not okay.

So sorry that happened to you!

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