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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:59 am 
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So I'm wondering if by professional or doctorate, whether they are really counting a NP/CRNA degree as professional, I'm guessing they are which is to say that if you are a NP, you require a NP degree (which up until a few years ago was only done at the Master's level) and if you area Nurse Anesthesiologist, then you require a CRNA which I believe is currently only done at the Master's level. So that aspect wouldn't have any affect on the last 2 parts of the chart (NP & NA).

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:44 pm 
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8ball wrote:
The music scene in the UK challenges my feminism.

I was chatting with a female punk musician last night and we agreed that being a female in music can often be a double-edged sword, in that people can tend to overlook you for being female or like you for the wrong reasons (ie that you have breasts, rather than the fact that you're a competent musician). I haven't experienced "you're alright.... for a girl" personally. Yet.


I know someone who seems to think 'female-fronted' is a sub genre of punk. It makes me mad because I feel like in so many things, not just music, men are seen as the norm and women are seen as the other or some kind of special interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:45 pm 
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the existence of child support is not a feminist issue. [i mean, it helps women, but to label it as a tool of the "feminist brigade" is just short-sighted and insensitive, not to women, but to everyone involved]. i can't believe i am actually having this conversation with someone.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:55 pm 
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I actually read a guy try to make the argument that child support was a bodily autonomy issue for men. Because to pay child support, you are forced to work, which is something you do with your body, and if you don't pay you go to jail, which is also something you do with your body. So obviously it's equally important for men to be able get out of supporting their children than for women to have access to abortion. what the fizzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:57 pm 
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The TV show Scrubs really did a great job showing how different men and women are treated.

First the first few seasons showed how hard it is for women to find the mentors in their careers that teach them. Elliot Reed's main mentor was really Carla, who took her aside, taught her, covered up for her, while Dr Cox continually belittled her and never really found time to teach. They give her another mentor (played by Heather Graham), but again, why is it so hard for women to find male mentors? Its part of the reason behind the glass escalator. Women come in and they languish if someone doesn't mentor them professionally, show them the ropes, teach them the politics, introduce them around, help them take risks etc. Research shows that having a good mentor is a huge predictor of professional success. The first few seasons, Elliot is always working really hard and can't have relationships etc like JD and Turk do, because she is working so much harder to make up for the fact that she has no mentor training her, so she relies on the books more.

And the second thing that they did so well, was having Dr Kelso be so angry with Elliot for leaving, and wasting his time etc etc etc. In contrast, when JD, who really did get a ton of training, mentoring etc, moves on, no one holds it against him. I think its often harder for women to move on without hard feelings, which means that its harder to get references and networking and professional opportunities from former colleagues and bosses.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:55 pm 
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jordanpattern wrote:
Someone posted this on my facebook page:

Quote:
I'm all in support of International Woman's Day... Maybe if we actually bound together and started treating each other and most importantly OURSELVES with respect this day would be stronger... and just for the record... I'm all for International Mens Day.... ( quite honestly I think that it would be way more fun... beer.... wings...music.... games.. meh skies the limit) :) ♥


My feminism is hardly challenged by this (my feminism generally doesn't care what people say on facebook), but there pretty much isn't enough facepalm in the world.


Maybe you could point them to this blog post: http://vagendamag.blogspot.co.uk/2013/0 ... day-q.html ?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:05 am 
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quark wrote:
The comments are really awful in terms of their tone and overt sexism, but some of them actually pick up on some problems with the article (or maybe the study... I can't tell). The article states:

Quote:
Male nurses are more likely than female nurses to have a doctoral degree, more likely to work evening or night shifts, and more likely to be immigrants. Female nurses are more likely to work in doctor’s offices or schools.


So the degrees, different shifts, and place of employment (hospital vs. doctor's office or school) probably contributes to the wage gap, and the article (and/or study) should have made this more clear and also made some clear apples-to-apples comparisons.

What I hate about the comments is that most people stop there instead of interrogating *why* men are more likely to have doctoral degrees or work evening in night shifts. What do these asymmetries say about what we expect from men and women and how we as a society reward or punish their actions? Are women still expected to be primary caregivers for children? Are men still expected to be the primary breadwinners and work themselves to the bone so their spouses can stay home and raise kids? The issue here isn't (necessarily) personal sexism on the part of administrators, but the structural limitations on and expectations for men and women that lead to position and wage gaps. One of the more thoughtful comments points out that "women tend to value certain non-monetary factors when choosing their careers" but doesn't ask *why* women in the US at this moment are more likely to value these things, and that's a really important question to ask.

But basically, all the commenters are trapped in the assumption that sexism is something individuals feel and not something societies do. Ugh.

ETA: Oh god, I posted a comment. I better *not* go back to check on it, because I've been in way too many internet wars this week as it is....


This makes me think of one my favourite West Wing quotes:

Sam: They have bathrobes at the gym?
C.J.: In the women's locker room.
Sam: But not the men's.
CJ: Yeah.
Sam: Now, that's outrageous. There's a thousand men working here and fifty women...
CJ: Yeah, and it's the bathrobes that's outrageous.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Efcliz wrote:
quark wrote:
The comments are really awful in terms of their tone and overt sexism, but some of them actually pick up on some problems with the article (or maybe the study... I can't tell). The article states:

Quote:
Male nurses are more likely than female nurses to have a doctoral degree, more likely to work evening or night shifts, and more likely to be immigrants. Female nurses are more likely to work in doctor’s offices or schools.


So the degrees, different shifts, and place of employment (hospital vs. doctor's office or school) probably contributes to the wage gap, and the article (and/or study) should have made this more clear and also made some clear apples-to-apples comparisons.

What I hate about the comments is that most people stop there instead of interrogating *why* men are more likely to have doctoral degrees or work evening in night shifts. What do these asymmetries say about what we expect from men and women and how we as a society reward or punish their actions? Are women still expected to be primary caregivers for children? Are men still expected to be the primary breadwinners and work themselves to the bone so their spouses can stay home and raise kids? The issue here isn't (necessarily) personal sexism on the part of administrators, but the structural limitations on and expectations for men and women that lead to position and wage gaps. One of the more thoughtful comments points out that "women tend to value certain non-monetary factors when choosing their careers" but doesn't ask *why* women in the US at this moment are more likely to value these things, and that's a really important question to ask.

But basically, all the commenters are trapped in the assumption that sexism is something individuals feel and not something societies do. Ugh.

ETA: Oh god, I posted a comment. I better *not* go back to check on it, because I've been in way too many internet wars this week as it is....


This makes me think of one my favourite West Wing quotes:

Sam: They have bathrobes at the gym?
C.J.: In the women's locker room.
Sam: But not the men's.
CJ: Yeah.
Sam: Now, that's outrageous. There's a thousand men working here and fifty women...
CJ: Yeah, and it's the bathrobes that's outrageous.


<3

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Kinder surprise has apparently decided that it's necessary to release a line specifically "for girls." They come in pink wrappers and feature jewelery and other "girly" themed toys. UGH. At least there is already quite a bit of negative feedback on their FB fan page. http://www.facebook.com/kindersurprise?filter=2

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:43 pm 
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I saw those and thought please let those be for Easter and not for girls. Sadly, I am too optimistic.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:45 pm 
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I don't know if this even falls under feminism, but when I meet new people lately, they ask me "Do you work?" which feels awkward. No one used to ask me that question until recently (I just hit 30), and no one asks my husband "do you work" when they meet him.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:46 pm 
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parkerk wrote:
Kinder surprise has apparently decided that it's necessary to release a line specifically "for girls." They come in pink wrappers and feature jewelery and other "girly" themed toys. UGH. At least there is already quite a bit of negative feedback on their FB fan page. http://www.facebook.com/kindersurprise?filter=2


I already left them a disgruntled post on FB. I extra hate that it is Kinder *For Girls*. Couldn't it be... Kinder *sparkle* or something?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Its the first day of the Steubenville trial. Only 2 of the accused rapists are being tried, both as juveniles (15 and 16) and there is no jury hearing the evidence.

It sounds so ugly: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/highschool ... 36500.html

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:47 pm 
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The victim is expected to testify. She is such a hero for coming forward and reporting her attackers and I hope that her appearance will shift the narrative from being all about not "ruining" the footballplayers' lives and to what actually happened to her and how brutal the attack was. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/highschool ... 36470.html

Its just a horrible case, and it sucks that the worst these guys are going to get is 5 years in juvenile detention, after which their files will be expunged. And of course that so many of the other assailants have gotten a free pass. And this probably wasn't their first attack.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:59 pm 
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parkerk wrote:
Kinder surprise has apparently decided that it's necessary to release a line specifically "for girls." They come in pink wrappers and feature jewelery and other "girly" themed toys. UGH. At least there is already quite a bit of negative feedback on their FB fan page. http://www.facebook.com/kindersurprise?filter=2


When I was a child, kids had to actually assemble the toys themselves. Now the toys come in one piece. It's not a feminist rant, just a cranky-old-lady rant about stupidifying the next generations...


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:34 pm 
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rhelune wrote:
parkerk wrote:
Kinder surprise has apparently decided that it's necessary to release a line specifically "for girls." They come in pink wrappers and feature jewelery and other "girly" themed toys. UGH. At least there is already quite a bit of negative feedback on their FB fan page. http://www.facebook.com/kindersurprise?filter=2


When I was a child, kids had to actually assemble the toys themselves. Now the toys come in one piece. It's not a feminist rant, just a cranky-old-lady rant about stupidifying the next generations...


Ugh. Yeah. AND I was never inundated with cruddy puzzles when I was little. As I got older, all I got was darn cardboard puzzles. Which are no fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:33 pm 
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ABC's news show 20/20 is airing a show on Steubenville, focussing on the narrative of the accused as two hard working boys, just trying to get by on the love of football, facing the trials of a public court ("every parent's nightmare!"), and the tragedy of being denied the chance to play again. The amount of excuses that 20/20 makes for the accused made me want to throw up in my mouth. Basically 20/20 says that the victim initiated everything, consented and is just out to ruin these poor innocent boys. The anchor even says "She may well have done this before." Great journalism there 20/20.

Its like rape apology bingo
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/steubenville ... d=18705357

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:11 am 
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She may well have done what before? Been raped? Because that sure sounds like a pretty biased statement and I'm pretty sure Journalists are supposed to be unbiased. I have been trying to stay away from this case so much because I don't feel like I'm in a healthy place to read about it but holy forking shiitake is this not a poster for the epitome of victim blaming and our broken system in regards to rape.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:33 am 
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The verdict is coming down at 10 ET and I am really curious as to how it will go. Even if the Mays and Richmond are convicted on all counts, it is still sad that the other people involved that night and the entire system that protected these guys is getting off scot-free. Plus they can't get more than 4 years (17 to 21) in juvenile court. And given all the corruption, the refusal to prosecute, the handshake deals, I have such low expectations. I think the victim was amazing to take the stand and tell her side of the story, and I hope she gets some peace and healing from that. I thought it was heartbreaking to hear her that the girl who had been her best friend since pre-school turned on her on the stand and call her a liar.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:43 am 
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The BBC is reporting guilty charges (which don't go far enough).

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:53 am 
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162- ... -old-girl/

One year for Richmond, two for Mays because he had pictures. Such a forking slap on the wrist.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Dear Lard, the comments there are just....

Quote:
IMO, I wonder if she will learn from this lesson, or if it will be left behind since others were "to blame".

"To blame" in quotes... like they weren't actually at fault. Nice.

Quote:
The obscenity in this is we still presume that the woman has no responsibility for her part in this. I accept the men are deserving of time in jail, but she too should get some time in jail. There is certainly enough culpability to go around. If we as a nation want to create a dis-incentive this kind of behavior then all involved should be punished. She was at the very least criminally negligent.

Yes, ladies, that's right... it's so hard for guys not to rape you that getting drunk is "criminally negligent" behavior. It would be an "obscenity" to think otherwise!

Quote:
Was she a chaste virgin? Heaven forbid, No! If she was, there would have been no possibility for this to happen, end of story. Is there a call for holding her responsible for her acts? She is guilty, of this there is not a bit of doubt.

Yes, virgins can't be raped!

::rage::

I really hope these comments are all from trolls, but I doubt it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Haha, oh my god. I love how the fathers of the rapists apologized to the victim's family, Ma'lik's family, the community, and "everyone else" - but not the victim herself. Even in court nobody gives a shiitake about her.

I hope this slap on the wrist is somehow enough to deter them from ever committing sexual assault again.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:57 pm 
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It wasn't a harsh sentence, but at least the victim had a chance to speak up in court and finally have one person say she was right. Its been a really long road for her to even have these charges brought. I think it sends a good message to have any accountability in a town where being a football player or associated with football meant you got a free pass.

And supposedly Mike DeWine is convening a grand jury to look into other people who should have charges brought against them. I hope they aren't limited to just the other people at the party but extend to the adults who covered this up. From the coach who promised the boys in text messages to make this go away to the prosecutor who didn't recuse herself when it turned out some of the assaults took place at her home and dissuaded the victim from bringing charges, to the sheriff who made a deal with some of the accused over dinner to make the charges go away.

Way to go Anonymous! None of this would have happened without their investigation.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:04 pm 
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High five Anonymous. (Also, high five girl for being brave enough to stick to her guns in court. What a shiitake situation and shiitake thing to have to do.)

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