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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
(I am always tempted to say "Oh no, we're raising her as a lesbian.") but I would like to point out that their genders are irrelevant at this point, without seeming rude.


Ha, I say "I'm pretty sure s/he's gay" about kids in response to stuff like that ALL THE TIME. But I also have no filter.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
b.vicious wrote:
Quote:
shout out to all the beautiful women who don't need to dress half naked to get a man's attention... stay classy!

A shop owner is trying to convince people that the above line isn't shaming women for how they dress, not at all! It's just a shout out to creative gals! Also, slut shaming is just a buzz word! Barf.


My cousin posted that on facebook and also just a second ago posted something like "You can't shake a hors d'oeuvre tree and expect a housewife to fall out".

Which is kinda amazing to me because we had to defend the shiitake out of her when she worked at hooters, slept around a lot and had kids out of wedlock. Why would she turn around and act like she waited til marriage?

Ugh, that is even worse. Maybe your cousin thinks of herself as "reformed" and believes the stuff she did before was bad, and therefore she's okay with saying that? I don't know.

I'm totally perplexed by this shop employee, though, since they really seem to believe that statement wasn't at all offensive. Like if I said, "Shout out to women who don't wear spandex!" that's obviously supposed to mean I don't think women should wear spandex, right? That's the whole reason it was framed that way!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Hey, kiss my spandexed butt!

Image
;)

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:42 pm 
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b.vicious wrote:
Quote:
shout out to all the beautiful women who don't need to dress half naked to get a man's attention... stay classy!

A shop owner is trying to convince people that the above line isn't shaming women for how they dress, not at all! It's just a shout out to creative gals! Also, slut shaming is just a buzz word! Barf.

This is such a clear cut comment, how the hell could someone not know what they're saying when they say that?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Mr T was just watching ESPN and there was something I have never seen before: women's football, with the women wearing basically pantaloons and a sportsbra and pads. I'm sorry, but what the fuckety fork is that shiitake [ETA: besides the obvious jerkoff material; i mean, they may as well have inserted breaks for all the ladies to suck on ice pops and talk about How Very Hot they get playing football.]

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:18 am 
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jordanpattern wrote:

Haha, don't worry, it was only hypothetical spandex dislike! Not that you or your spandexed butt need my approval to be awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:56 am 
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You know those suuuuper funny "found the vegan" pictures? This morning I saw a picture of a girl joking about wanting to be raped on facebook and then another girl telling her it wasn't funny and then a lovely comment of "found the rape victim"

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:58 am 
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Fee wrote:
You know those suuuuper funny "found the vegan" pictures? This morning I saw a picture of a girl joking about wanting to be raped on facebook and then another girl telling her it wasn't funny and then a lovely comment of "found the rape victim"

WHAT THE FORK.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:00 am 
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ugh
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Holy shiitake.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:58 am 
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Quote:
"He created her with a womb. And in fact that's the most distinguishing characteristic of a woman. In the American Webster's 1928 dictionary, it says that woman is combination of two words: womb and man. She is a womb-man."


Womb-man?! fork off!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22526252


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Fee wrote:
You know those suuuuper funny "found the vegan" pictures? This morning I saw a picture of a girl joking about wanting to be raped on facebook and then another girl telling her it wasn't funny and then a lovely comment of "found the rape victim"

What the fork is wrong with people.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Fee wrote:
You know those suuuuper funny "found the vegan" pictures? This morning I saw a picture of a girl joking about wanting to be raped on facebook and then another girl telling her it wasn't funny and then a lovely comment of "found the rape victim"

WOW

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 6:03 pm 
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This man who works at a shoe repair shop by my gym. I've always found him creepy; he stares a bit too long when I walk past going to the gym. Today I brought a pair of shoes to him and he said, "I see you all the time. I see you like tattoos. I hope you don't plan on getting anymore, though." I said something along the lines of, "Infact, I have plans for many more" and he said, "Ohh...." in this really disappointed tone. Then he follows that up with, "I don't like it when women have lots of tattoos. It looks bad. What you have now is acceptable and you still look pretty." I grabbed my shoes and told him nevermind on the repairs and walked away.

Seriously, what the fizzle?! Why is my body and my choices with it up for debate with a STRANGER?! As if I give a shiitake if that guy thinks my tattoos are attractive. fdkjfdsljsdlkfjsdlfksj

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:50 pm 
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We have a gossip problem at my job. When the gossipers are called on it, they like to trot out the "Oh well, what do you expect when you work with a bunch of women?" as if it's a valid response. It makes me want to kick them in the face. I don't talk shiitake about people, I address them directly, and I don't appreciate anyone telling me that because I'm a woman the urge to gossip is part of my forking DNA. It also promotes the idea that women can't be have genuine friendships because we're constantly sniping at one another. It's insulting, and it irritates me that these women don't seem to understand that they SHOULD be insulted by this shitty stereotype.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:42 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
This man who works at a shoe repair shop by my gym. I've always found him creepy; he stares a bit too long when I walk past going to the gym. Today I brought a pair of shoes to him and he said, "I see you all the time. I see you like tattoos. I hope you don't plan on getting anymore, though." I said something along the lines of, "Infact, I have plans for many more" and he said, "Ohh...." in this really disappointed tone. Then he follows that up with, "I don't like it when women have lots of tattoos. It looks bad. What you have now is acceptable and you still look pretty." I grabbed my shoes and told him nevermind on the repairs and walked away.

Seriously, what the fizzle?! Why is my body and my choices with it up for debate with a STRANGER?! As if I give a shiitake if that guy thinks my tattoos are attractive. fdkjfdsljsdlkfjsdlfksj


THANK YOU.
I can't even begin to describe how feed up I have been lately with men commenting on various aspects of my physical appearance. Even if it's just 'those glasses look really good on you.' -all I want to do is shout at them 'thank you for your approval, now my life means something. And when they criticize something (like a piercing), I want to ask them if I am supposed to feel like I need to apologize for letting them down.

There are 3 people on this planet who get to say anything about my appearance and choices, and they are, in order:

sister 2
sister 1
husband


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:47 pm 
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paprikapapaya wrote:
"What you have now is acceptable..."

Acceptable? I wasn't aware you needed male approval for each and every tattoo.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:27 am 
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Good for you, 4P! I hope that guy realized how completely inappropriate his comments were.

It makes me really sad how entrenched this mentality is. I mean, when I was first dating my husband he once went off on some diatribe about how he thought pierced/tattooed/made up women were unattractive and gross and how women should know men don't like that stuff. I had to literally say, "you realize your opinion about what others choose to do with their body is irrelevant, right?" This is a dude who is otherwise not sexist and is very much a feminist, but was still of the belief that his opinions about women's bodies and choices had actual weight--to the point that he was trying to discourage me (essentially a stranger at that point) from making body modifications. Someone actually had to point out how problematic his attitude was before he could recognize it himself. I mean, fine, you don't dig tattoes? Whatever. But thinking that should influence a stranger's decisions so that they're more attractive to you? Ugh. That's what we're up against.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:24 am 
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I think a lot of dudes can't wrap their heads around the fact that just because their penis doesn't like something doesn't mean that that matters at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:04 am 
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http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/05 ... &mobile=nc

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:27 am 
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I am kind of shocked at the lack of outrage around the issue of sexual assaults and bullying in the military and the crazy hubbub around allegations of preferential treatment of certain teaparty groups by the IRS. One is about people's lives while the other is really just about money. But then one is about a marginalized group and one is about the people who support the GOP.

26,000 service members were sexually assaulted last year. I was listening to survivor stories on NPR and they were terrible and so sad, and I thought back to j-dub's post that rape breaks people. One story was from a woman who signed up with an Air Force recruiter who then invited her to his house to meet other recruits and learn more about the Air Force. Once there he roofied and raped her. The documentary, on this "The Invisible War" talks about how there are serial predators in the military who know exactly how to target their victims. And a system in place to cover up their acts, down to three star generals dismissing all charges against them.
Trigger warning: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =184206620

And I thought IBTP was great: http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/201 ... e-serious/

Here are some of the legislative attempts to address the issue. Not one has been endorsed by Pres. Obama though he has called the situation deplorable.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/1 ... 95508.html

Contrast that with the huge "Heads Will Roll" full court press on the IRS issue, that has consumed my Politico feed.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:34 am 
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i listened to those podcasts too, and the contrast is interesting, isn't it. I think it's really telling that for such a long time the administrative response [or lack thereof] is basically an acceptance of the status quo. I mean, really, since Tailhook this stuff has not been a secret yet it continues to happen. Lack of real response seems to equal acceptance.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:44 pm 
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TexTroosers wrote:

THANK YOU.
I can't even begin to describe how feed up I have been lately with men commenting on various aspects of my physical appearance. Even if it's just 'those glasses look really good on you.' -all I want to do is shout at them 'thank you for your approval, now my life means something. And when they criticize something (like a piercing), I want to ask them if I am supposed to feel like I need to apologize for letting them down.

There are 3 people on this planet who get to say anything about my appearance and choices, and they are, in order:

sister 2
sister 1
husband


Really? My husband likes to compliment strangers and friends alike on something that stands out to him, and I don't find it offensive. The people he compliments are usually either happy he noticed something nice about them (friends), or think he's queer (strangers...an unfounded assumption, but he likes to compliment people on interesting jewelry pieces and the like, and we know some people can't comprehend that stereotypes should not be a thing).

Definitely a stranger's criticism of tattoos or piercings challenges my feminism, but I think genuine compliments are just a human being nice to another human.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 2:09 pm 
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I'm not offended by compliments, I mean its not like if someone says they like my dress it doesn't mean my life was on hold waiting for their approval. I was just livin ma life and someone complimented my taste and that's cool. It's weirder when someone compliments my eyes because I have no control over what color my eyes are but I'm not offended. The lady who said I had pretty eyes and then that my coworker had pretty eyes too and that we should have children together...now she may have been out of line.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Fee wrote:
I'm not offended by compliments, I mean its not like if someone says they like my dress it doesn't mean my life was on hold waiting for their approval. I was just livin ma life and someone complimented my taste and that's cool. It's weirder when someone compliments my eyes because I have no control over what color my eyes are but I'm not offended. The lady who said I had pretty eyes and then that my coworker had pretty eyes too and that we should have children together...now she may have been out of line.


Same here. Those things are just general friendliness to me. I posted in the body shaming thread about people asking if I'd lost weight because I looked nice yesterday. I'd have felt nice if they had commented on my hair cut or different-for-me outfit or my new sparkly eyeliner.

Of course people generally don't talk to me, so I suppose I shouldn't complain then when they try to be nice, even if it backfires. They meant well.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:21 pm 
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vijita wrote:
TexTroosers wrote:

THANK YOU.
I can't even begin to describe how fed up I have been lately with men commenting on various aspects of my physical appearance.


I think genuine compliments are just a human being nice to another human.


Well her experience is her experience, and it sounds like it is colored by a pretty hostile work environment (which she posts about upthread).

Not to make you wrong vijita, but it made me think. I posted that I hate it when men talk about how gorgeous my daughter is. And immediately got a few responses to the effect of "relax, he's just trying to be nice." And the thing is, yes, he was just trying to be nice, but why don't I get to have my feelings, without having to immediately think myself into the man's head and try and figure out what his intent was? The thing is that we live in a society where little girls get sexualized so early, and get told over and over how beautiful they are and that has an impact on how they value themselves. And I am responding to that.

The thing is that you can't ever tell how someone is going to take a compliment, so you just do the best you can and be responsible if you end up hurting someone. But if someone says that they don't like it, then it would be great if people could honor that, instead of making excuses, you know?

And that challenges my feminism, that we live in a world, where our experience is questioned, and we have to learn to constantly look at our own experiences through a male gaze as part of our processing.

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