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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:35 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:42 pm 
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DrakeRedcrest wrote:
Shout out to the guy who was all up on me and making sexual comments while I was trying to watch bands and celebrate Canada day. I felt really unsafe and I cried in my car.

Shout out to me for being passive and not reacting the way I wish I had. Not only do I get to feel really gross that this happened, but I also get to be mad at myself for not publicly shaming him.

Happy forking Canada day.

Hey now, it is neither your job nor your responsibility to publicly shame him. You did everything you could to stay as safe as you could in a really shitty situation and that's what matters here.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:47 pm 
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j-dub wrote:
DrakeRedcrest wrote:
Shout out to the guy who was all up on me and making sexual comments while I was trying to watch bands and celebrate Canada day. I felt really unsafe and I cried in my car.

Shout out to me for being passive and not reacting the way I wish I had. Not only do I get to feel really gross that this happened, but I also get to be mad at myself for not publicly shaming him.

Happy forking Canada day.

Hey now, it is neither your job nor your responsibility to publicly shame him. You did everything you could to stay as safe as you could in a really shitty situation and that's what matters here.


Yes this! Whenever something crappy has happened to me, well-meaning friends will say "If it had been me, I would have punched him or screamed etc." And I know its meant to share outrage, but at least for me, I never know how I am going to react, and often its just going into quiet survivor mode to get through things unscathed.

Big hugs to you - I am sorry you were subjected to such lewd comments <3

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Yesterday I was at the beach and there was an old dude masturbating about thirty feet from where our towels were. We were out in the water when we noticed. When we went back we gathered up our stuff and moved far down the beach.

I'd love to be the person who goes up to him and tells him to put his junk away and to stop being a pervert but the truth is I have no idea how that might escalate and how triggering it might be for me. So I did what I needed to to keep myself safe. And though I profoundly hope he gets his dues, I didn't want to risk being custard on by a creepy old man in order to give him whatfor.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:53 pm 
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I hope it got sunburned.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Ha! Me too.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Tofulish wrote:
j-dub wrote:
DrakeRedcrest wrote:
Shout out to the guy who was all up on me and making sexual comments while I was trying to watch bands and celebrate Canada day. I felt really unsafe and I cried in my car.

Shout out to me for being passive and not reacting the way I wish I had. Not only do I get to feel really gross that this happened, but I also get to be mad at myself for not publicly shaming him.

Happy forking Canada day.

Hey now, it is neither your job nor your responsibility to publicly shame him. You did everything you could to stay as safe as you could in a really shitty situation and that's what matters here.


Yes this! Whenever something crappy has happened to me, well-meaning friends will say "If it had been me, I would have punched him or screamed etc." And I know its meant to share outrage, but at least for me, I never know how I am going to react, and often its just going into quiet survivor mode to get through things unscathed.

Big hugs to you - I am sorry you were subjected to such lewd comments <3


Its really easy to say that you would have done X Y or Z, but when you're in the situation its not so good!

I've noticed I've been getting more suspicious lately, feeling like I have to be more ready for when things like that happen again so I can say what I really want to say. Like today this guy who kinda looked creepy sat next to me on the bus when there were lots and lots of free seats, so I was all ready like "here it comes! I WILL END YOU" but either he was harmless or a mindreader because he changed seats shortly after I was thinking that XD

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:11 am 
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Shy Mox wrote:
I've noticed I've been getting more suspicious lately, feeling like I have to be more ready for when things like that happen again so I can say what I really want to say. Like today this guy who kinda looked creepy sat next to me on the bus when there were lots and lots of free seats, so I was all ready like "here it comes! I WILL END YOU" but either he was harmless or a mindreader because he changed seats shortly after I was thinking that XD

Ugh, I have been getting more suspicious lately too. I have been harassed a lot in the past few months and it's made me so jumpy and suspicious of any man that gets too close to me or looks like he might be up to something. I think of all the super feminist responses I will have at my fingertips if something does go down, but in all honesty I'm quaking in my boots because a) I don't know if something bad is about to happen to me and b) if something does happen, will my super feminist response end up getting me hurt more? Then I feel guilty because I know I am being reactive and judging a lot of men unfairly.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:48 am 
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j-dub wrote:
Yesterday I was at the beach and there was an old dude masturbating about thirty feet from where our towels were. We were out in the water when we noticed. When we went back we gathered up our stuff and moved far down the beach.
You basically reenacted the "Nausicaa" episode of Ulysses right there!

And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!

Then all melted away dewily in the grey air: all was silent. Ah! She glanced at him as she bent forward quickly, a pathetic little glance of piteous protest, of shy reproach under which he coloured like a girl. He was leaning back against the rock behind. Leopold Bloom (for it is he) stands silent, with bowed head before those young guileless eyes. What a brute he had been! At it again? A fair unsullied soul had called to him and, wretch that he was, how had he answered? An utter cad he had been. He of all men! But there was an infinite store of mercy in those eyes, for him too a word of pardon even though he had erred and sinned and wandered. Should a girl tell? No, a thousand times no. That was their secret, only theirs, alone in the hiding twilight and there was none to know or tell save the little bat that flew so softly through the evening to and fro and little bats don't tell.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:17 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Shy Mox wrote:
Tofulish wrote:
j-dub wrote:
Hey now, it is neither your job nor your responsibility to publicly shame him. You did everything you could to stay as safe as you could in a really shitty situation and that's what matters here.


Yes this! Whenever something crappy has happened to me, well-meaning friends will say "If it had been me, I would have punched him or screamed etc." And I know its meant to share outrage, but at least for me, I never know how I am going to react, and often its just going into quiet survivor mode to get through things unscathed.

Big hugs to you - I am sorry you were subjected to such lewd comments <3


Its really easy to say that you would have done X Y or Z, but when you're in the situation its not so good!


Thanks everybody. Today I saw the two friends I was with when it happened: M, who is a man, and L, who is a woman - and they are dating each other. So I told them what happened, and M did the whole song and dance about how the guy was drunk, so it wasn't a big deal - he said it "didn't count." I got up in his face and yelled at him, which felt better at the time, but doesn't now.

So. Now I feel even worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:55 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:13 am 
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I'm going to post this with spoiler tags, in case it is triggering for anyone who has experienced sexual assault. (Also, this may or may not really deal with feminism, but I couldn't think of any other place to post it and didn't want to start a new thread, and this seems like a safe place.)

Spoiler: show
So, when I was a senior in high school, I semi-dated this guy, Joe, who was a defensive linebacker on our football team. It was really only about the sex. We would go to his house 3 or 4 afternoons out of the week, because we both went to school half days (me for college classes, him for work). One day, I was on my period and didn't want to have sex. He suggested I give him a blow job, but I didn't want to do that either. I don't even know why I was there. Maybe I thought it could be about more than sex. He ended up tying my hands behind my back with a belt, held me down, and jerked off onto my face. He was much bigger than me, so there wasn't a lot I could do in terms of fighting back. I had bruises all over my arms. I never went there again, and he kept bugging me about it, and seriously did not seem to understand when I told him that he had put bruises on me (aside from the other stuff) and that was not acceptable. I then proceeded to go through life in a fairly normal way, although I did tend to have emotionally abusive relationships. I think about it sometimes, but not often anymore. Anyway, he commented on something a friend of mine posted on Facebook. I never thought about him having a Facebook before, and that being a way for him to filter into my life. So of course, I look at his page. It's filled with reposted pictures of seriously crazy shiitake. A lot of anti Obama stuff, offensive shiitake about women, lots of guns, scantily clad women with guns, pictures of Slipknot (apologies to anyone that still listens to them?), anyway, the overall impression I get of adult Joe is that he's psycho. I wonder if he has done what he did to me (or worse) to anyone else. I wish I would have said something back then. I wish I wouldn't have been at his house in the first place, because it ended up making me basically afraid of men, although really only mostly men with a powerful build, and especially football players. It's crazy to me that the guy I'm with now is a former football player...who played the same position. I didn't know that about him until after we started dating. And he is so gentle and kind and respectful to women. And he's the only guy I've ever been with that was like that. I wonder how much of me is permanently damaged, what things I allowed in my past relationships, because of that one thing that happened to me, but I try not to blame my faults on it. Anyway, I was just thinking about it and needed to get my thoughts out. I know much worse things have happened to others, and I'm grateful that this is the worst that has happened to me. I also know that I'm probably going to drink too much tonight and tell my boyfriend about this, which is probably a terrible idea. Fingers crossed that that doesn't happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:55 am 
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Love to you AP. I hope you're feeling ok.

My friend posted a meme stating that in hot weather people should dress for the body they have rather than the body they want. It seems pretty marginalizing in several ways. I'm saddened that my friend is promoting this view.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:56 am 
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Imogen wrote:
'Someone Invented a Baby Wig, So Your Little Girl Won't Be Bald' (http://jezebel.com/someone-invented-a-b ... -672938177)
This makes me SO STABBY. File in the same "What the Actual Hell?" folder with the baby booties interpreted as fuckme pumps. Because apparently there is no age at which human females should not be sexually objectified. Tee-hee! What fun!

http://www.feministlawprofessors.com/20 ... t-so-much/

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:36 am 
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I wouldn't read sexual objectification into the wigs. They're stupid, but as someone who had a baby with hair but who was dressed in very gender neutral clothing most of her first year, I didn't really care whether people thought she was a boy or a girl, but it would sometimes be super awkward when people in line somewhere would go on about what a cute boy he was, etc. and then at the end of the exchange ask his name. "Uh, Violet?" But not really worth correcting people every time either. I can see how some people would get tired of people getting it 'wrong' and correcting them.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:43 pm 
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annak wrote:
I wouldn't read sexual objectification into the wigs. They're stupid, but as someone who had a baby with hair but who was dressed in very gender neutral clothing most of her first year, I didn't really care whether people thought she was a boy or a girl, but it would sometimes be super awkward when people in line somewhere would go on about what a cute boy he was, etc. and then at the end of the exchange ask his name. "Uh, Violet?" But not really worth correcting people every time either. I can see how some people would get tired of people getting it 'wrong' and correcting them.
I'm having a hard time imagining being so bothered about random people getting my child's gender "wrong" that I'd resort to putting them in a costume to place their sexual identity (the fork??) out of doubt for complete strangers. Or for anyone else, for that matter. My youngest son has always hated haircuts, and at two had a full head of cascading chestnut ringlets (picture Charles II) and we often heard things like "isn't she lovely?" etc. It never bothered me - and more importantly, didn't bother him - and I'd never have considered dressing him as a lumberjack in order to reassure passersby of his heteronormativity. I actually have very a fond memory of the woman in the grocery line asked me what "her" name was; when I answered "James" she laughed and said, "Well, James, you are beautiful." Because he totally was (and is).

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:57 pm 
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8ball wrote:
Love to you AP. I hope you're feeling ok.

My friend posted a meme stating that in hot weather people should dress for the body they have rather than the body they want. It seems pretty marginalizing in several ways. I'm saddened that my friend is promoting this view.


Because dressing to suit the weather is crazy talk, right? Who needs a phone weather app to see if you should dig out the umbrella--just check out the state of your abs.


AP, was that a repost or something that happened to you?

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:09 pm 
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lavawitch wrote:
8ball wrote:
Love to you AP. I hope you're feeling ok.

My friend posted a meme stating that in hot weather people should dress for the body they have rather than the body they want. It seems pretty marginalizing in several ways. I'm saddened that my friend is promoting this view.


Because dressing to suit the weather is crazy talk, right? Who needs a phone weather app to see if you should dig out the umbrella--just check out the state of your abs.


AP, was that a repost or something that happened to you?


Happened to me. I put it in spoiler tags in case anyone with a history of assault would be upset by reading it.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:30 pm 
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About the wigs, some people are pretty intensely committed to making sure everyone around them knows what gender their kid is - this doesn't sound like it's made for those of us who don't care what other people think about our babies/toddlers. I don't see this as much different from the ubiquitous head bands that infant girls get. And I don't think it's sexually objectifying of babies, but it's making sure gender "differences" are enforced and publicly viewable (so that those baby girls will make sure to grow up to be appropriately sexually objectified). Part of the same spectrum, but not exactly the same as 7-year-olds in thongs.


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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Ariann wrote:
About the wigs, some people are pretty intensely committed to making sure everyone around them knows what gender their kid is - this doesn't sound like it's made for those of us who don't care what other people think about our babies/toddlers.
So that makes it okay?
Ariann wrote:
I don't see this as much different from the ubiquitous head bands that infant girls get. And I don't think it's sexually objectifying of babies, but it's making sure gender "differences" are enforced and publicly viewable (so that those baby girls will make sure to grow up to be appropriately sexually objectified). Part of the same spectrum, but not exactly the same as 7-year-olds in thongs.
Maybe it's a matter of degree, but any degree of bullshiitake is still bullshiitake, and it should be called as much. Where does it start? Is it ever too early? Apparently not, since we now live in a society where people think it's appropriate to put an infant in faux stillettos and a wig. This is the stuff of farce; it would be hilariously funny if it wasn't true.

GAAAH. Stuff like this makes me glad I didn't have daughters, because I think I would just be punching stuff all the time!

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:47 pm 
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I wish i could go to the pool without being hit on. Really, i wish i could go everywhere without being hit on. NOt that i get hit on everywhere i go, but really i wish no one hit on me, ever.
I finished swimming before my dad today, so i decided to do some yoga and stretches. I walked over to the grassy area, and there was this maybe 40 year old dude i could tell was looking at me, so i made a wide circle around him. And of course he was staring the whole time. It made me uncomfortable, but i wasn't going to let him ruin my workout so i tried not to think about it. Then when i was finished and was walking back, he was all like "Hey baby how you doing." Ugh. I couldn't think of anything appropriate to say in the vicinity of children, so i just didn't say anything. Then of course i thought of a million good responses on the bike ride home.
The worst part is that things like this remind me how much other people go through. I have it pretty easy, mostly just older dudes calling me baby and whistling or whatever. But it still makes me feel unsafe and uncomfortable and just plain gross to know that some disrespectful crasshole was looking at my body as a sexual object. And then i read stories here, and hear about cases so much more violent and terrible than anything i've ever gone through, and it just pains me to think of all the women who have to deal with it. I send good vibes out to all of you.

Ugh. One day i'll gain superpowers and bring justice to the world, with my un-shaven pubic area and cricket bat of doom. If you'll excuse the vulgarity, there is plenty of ball-smashing to be done.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:18 pm 
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allularpunk wrote:
I'm going to post this with spoiler tags, in case it is triggering for anyone who has experienced sexual assault. (Also, this may or may not really deal with feminism, but I couldn't think of any other place to post it and didn't want to start a new thread, and this seems like a safe place.)

Spoiler: show
So, when I was a senior in high school, I semi-dated this guy, Joe, who was a defensive linebacker on our football team. It was really only about the sex. We would go to his house 3 or 4 afternoons out of the week, because we both went to school half days (me for college classes, him for work). One day, I was on my period and didn't want to have sex. He suggested I give him a blow job, but I didn't want to do that either. I don't even know why I was there. Maybe I thought it could be about more than sex. He ended up tying my hands behind my back with a belt, held me down, and jerked off onto my face. He was much bigger than me, so there wasn't a lot I could do in terms of fighting back. I had bruises all over my arms. I never went there again, and he kept bugging me about it, and seriously did not seem to understand when I told him that he had put bruises on me (aside from the other stuff) and that was not acceptable. I then proceeded to go through life in a fairly normal way, although I did tend to have emotionally abusive relationships. I think about it sometimes, but not often anymore. Anyway, he commented on something a friend of mine posted on Facebook. I never thought about him having a Facebook before, and that being a way for him to filter into my life. So of course, I look at his page. It's filled with reposted pictures of seriously crazy shiitake. A lot of anti Obama stuff, offensive shiitake about women, lots of guns, scantily clad women with guns, pictures of Slipknot (apologies to anyone that still listens to them?), anyway, the overall impression I get of adult Joe is that he's psycho. I wonder if he has done what he did to me (or worse) to anyone else. I wish I would have said something back then. I wish I wouldn't have been at his house in the first place, because it ended up making me basically afraid of men, although really only mostly men with a powerful build, and especially football players. It's crazy to me that the guy I'm with now is a former football player...who played the same position. I didn't know that about him until after we started dating. And he is so gentle and kind and respectful to women. And he's the only guy I've ever been with that was like that. I wonder how much of me is permanently damaged, what things I allowed in my past relationships, because of that one thing that happened to me, but I try not to blame my faults on it. Anyway, I was just thinking about it and needed to get my thoughts out. I know much worse things have happened to others, and I'm grateful that this is the worst that has happened to me. I also know that I'm probably going to drink too much tonight and tell my boyfriend about this, which is probably a terrible idea. Fingers crossed that that doesn't happen.

Hey lady, you survived something really forked up and you came out the other side. AND you set boundaries with a misogynistic fuckwheasel so you wouldn't be in a vulnerable position with him again. That should be celebrated. And I think that, if it feels safe, telling T might be a good idea. I think it can give our partners some more insight into who we are and what things might trigger us.

Also, fork Joe. I hope he rots in a personal hell for the next forty years.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:22 pm 
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Discovered unobtainium
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Ap, ^^ that's what I wanted to say but didn't know how. As usual, j-dub has the words.

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 Post subject: Re: Who challenges your feminism in your life?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Chip Strong
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annabazoo wrote:
Ugh. One day i'll gain superpowers and bring justice to the world, with my un-shaven pubic area and cricket bat of doom. If you'll excuse the vulgarity, there is plenty of ball-smashing to be done.


Love this.

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