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 Post subject: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Saggy Butt
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Or is that taboo here? I'm just so annoyed by it and want to get your thoughts.

So, this is what a 'friend' of mine posted on FB today. This is after another mutual friend (a vegan) asked her vegan friends what they feed their animals. The guy that posted what's below responded to her post in a somewhat snarky manner, and somehow I knew that he wasn't done with the topic. So, on his own wall, he posted:

Quote:
I was going to post this to a vegan-oriented thread that I've been following with some interest, but decided to offer it to all of my friends just to poll a much more varied audience.
I'm gonna ask the most obvious [and annoying] question I can: What makes anyone think that a plant is any happier— or somehow *deserves*—to die just to supply your nourishment than an animal is? ALL living things, with the notable exception of suicides of all species, struggle for personal survival for as long as they can. So why not justify your continuing existence by offering respectful, compassionate reverence for all living things, and admit your complicity and personal responsibility in maintaining the cycle of life that sustains us all, including our sources of sustenance. If that's beyond you, why not just admit that life in this universe is too scary, messy, painful, ugly, and weird to bear (unless you can rationalize that it's ok to live as long as you can do so by killing and eating the utterly defenseless, ie, plants), and then see if you're truly willing to hurry along to where that sentiment will ultimately take you—you're going there anyway, so why waste time eating along the way?
PS—I'm aware that this question is deliberately [and, admittedly, obnoxiously] confrontational to vegans whose dietary choice is predicated on moral or ethical grounds, but I would love to hear opinions from vegans whose choice is based on health concerns as well.
Full disclosure: I classify [and rationalize] myself as a Gratefully and Skeptically Agnostic Omnivore.


Asinine, right? I mean, what the fork? Is he actually suggesting that I kill myself? What!

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Ugh. I'd send that one to the Not Worth Gracing With a Response file.

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:06 pm 
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monkeytoes wrote:
Ugh. I'd send that one to the Not Worth Gracing With a Response file.

as well as the Not Worth Getting Worked Up About file

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:28 pm 
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cause eating plants is totally the same as factory farming..................

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:40 pm 
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I love the sign off. I think this way because I'm a skeptic and rational! You're an emotional hippie who loves to torture plants.

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:59 pm 
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What the hell is he even talking about?

Full disclosure: I classify [and rationalize] myself as a Normal and Analytic Atheist Vegan.

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:25 pm 
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i've seen this pattern before - typically with closeted homosexuals, or other situations where people grew up in an environment that taught them to hate themselves.

he's using the 2nd person point of view in an attempt to distance himself from his own opinions and unacknowledged feelings of self-disgust - possibly complicated by substance abuse.

his declared lack of faith may be the only thing preventing him from killing himself.

definitely a cry for help... if his family is not the cause of the problem get them involved asap - if they are, you may need to reach out to a counseling service or some-such.


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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:41 am 
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Yeah, that doesn't warrant a response. This guy isn't looking for a conversation- he's looking to be validated as the supremely enlightened individual he perceives himself as. Completely ignoring him is the way to annoy him most (which is what I would be looking to do).

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:54 am 
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_rootVeg wrote:
i've seen this pattern before - typically with closeted homosexuals, or other situations where people grew up in an environment that taught them to hate themselves.

he's using the 2nd person point of view in an attempt to distance himself from his own opinions and unacknowledged feelings of self-disgust - possibly complicated by substance abuse.

his declared lack of faith may be the only thing preventing him from killing himself.

definitely a cry for help... if his family is not the cause of the problem get them involved asap - if they are, you may need to reach out to a counseling service or some-such.


Given that the OP shared just a paragraph of text, these are pretty sweeping assumptions about the writer and the groups you've referred to.


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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:10 am 
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I have one Facebook rule: does reading what people on my feed post generally made my day ever so slightly better? If someone isn't going to contribute to that, I don't have them on there.

(that doesn't mean all positive posts, just nice people)

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:26 am 
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8ball wrote:
Given that the OP shared just a paragraph of text, these are pretty sweeping assumptions about the writer and the groups you've referred to.


sorry - just trying to provide an alternate response.

i used to volunteer at a crisis phone bank - i was the "old gay guy" (i was 32 at the time!), so they would give me the calls from LGBT kids... some of them would start out very confrontational like this guy because they didn't know of any other way to deal with their feelings - and almost always drunk or high to muster the courage to call.

he may also just be trying to start a fight.


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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:38 am 
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Has anyone else responded?

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:42 am 
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He's got a point. Not wanting to contribute to the suffering of creatures we all know can experience pain and fear is kind of the same thing as not being able to handle how scary living is.

I mean, wait. What?!

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:45 am 
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I didn't understand any of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:51 am 
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simple concise answer. "animals need to eat plants, and for each lb of flesh they build, they need to eat at least 8 lbs of plants, so for each lb of meat you eat, i can eat 8 lbs of plants, and i am STILL not killing an animal."

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Yeah, but it's not an argument that deserves any answer. Because it's not a sincere, intellectually honest argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:05 pm 
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when i post answers to stupid arguments, it's more for the benefit of stupid readers of the argument. otherwise, they'll only see the one side and start thinking that way too.

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:21 pm 
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When people throw the "plants have feelings too" argument at me, I've been known to throw a simple "would you rather kick a pumpkin or a puppy?" at them. It really cuts to the core of what an intellectuallly dishhonest tack this is.

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:35 pm 
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lepelaar wrote:
When people throw the "plants have feelings too" argument at me, I've been known to throw a simple "would you rather kick a pumpkin or a puppy?" at them. It really cuts to the core of what an intellectuallly dishhonest tack this is.


Whoa! I like this! I might use this! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:41 pm 
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lepelaar wrote:
When people throw the "plants have feelings too" argument at me, I've been known to throw a simple "would you rather kick a pumpkin or a puppy?" at them. It really cuts to the core of what an intellectuallly dishhonest tack this is.


OMG pumpkin torturer!

The whole tone is so smug. You can tell this person is thinking 'Aha! Gotcha!'

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:24 pm 
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I've outveganed all of you by only eating animals that photosynthesize.


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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:40 am 
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If I was in this situation, I'd defriend the asshat and move on. And by "move on" I mean I'd rage about it with my veg friends, as I am a non-confrontational, yet angry person. Not helpful, I realize. Just honestly what I'd do.


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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:23 am 
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annak wrote:
I've outveganed all of you by only eating animals that photosynthesize.
So that's how I lost my Bulbasaur!

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:12 am 
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blondiefk wrote:
Has anyone else responded?

Unfortunately, lots of people did, although not seriously. Here is what I responded with:

Quote:
*****, I had to sit on this for awhile and figure out how I was going to respond. You know I'm vegan, so you know where I'm coming from.

As someone who grapples with suicidal ideation on the reg, I take issue with your "false dilemma." Trust me, I know the only way to cause zero suffering, and I mean zero, would be to wipe myself out. I don't mind being open about this. It's the truth.

Furthermore, happiness is an emotion. Plants do not experience emotion, they do not even have the capacity for awareness. Plants simply respond to stimuli and there is a difference between response to stimuli and awareness of response to stimuli. Interpreting their response to stimuli as emotions is pure and simple projection. There is a substantial difference between turning to plants for nutrients rather than obtaining it from animals.

At the end of the day, I'm still vegan because I don't want to contribute to the death of another sentient being. I don't care how you raise 'em; slaughter is slaughter, and that animal does not want to die. I do it for moral reasons, environmental reasons, and finally, my health. Fair?

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 Post subject: Re: Can I share what someone posted on FB?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:13 am 
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lepelaar wrote:
When people throw the "plants have feelings too" argument at me, I've been known to throw a simple "would you rather kick a pumpkin or a puppy?" at them. It really cuts to the core of what an intellectuallly dishhonest tack this is.

Nice! I like this!

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