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 Post subject: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:30 am 
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Two statements from Manning & council were issued today:

1. Manning's statement about leaking docs, http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2013/8 ... ee_society
2. His council's statement about sex reassignment, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23798253


I wonder what people are thinking about this? As well as his sentence (35 years, minus the time he's already served and minus a bit more time to "compensate" for bad treatment)?

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:32 am 
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(Mods, if you think this should rather merge with the Wikileaks or another thread, go ahead.)

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:49 am 
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The thing that's making me mental is that Chelsea asked to be referred to with female pronouns, and nearly every sentence in that second article, after stating that she wants to live as a woman, starts with "he".

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:59 am 
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I noticed that, too, rachell37. It sounds like the decision's been made (by Manning), and it's just a matter of the follow through (which is left up to the Army, since Manning is in custody, and will be for some time)? Not sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:15 am 
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The today show article seems to avoid using pronouns (or I didn't see them), other than a direct quote referring to Manning as she.
http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manni ... 6C10974915

I think, I hope that a case like this would initiate change in such a way that persons can report concerns and have them heard within their chain of command. I know it is difficult, especially in the military. If the US government is serious about keeping secrets secret though, they need to figure out something.

I feel for Manning, the law/agreement/order of conduct (not sure what you would call it when it relates to military matters) was broken but is that because there wasn't a good alternative in place? That seems to be the case.

Also, my husband, who sits in an office that has CNN on 24/7, thought that the news coverage was interesting "where is snowden? where is snowden? where is snowden? manninggoestotrial where is snowden? where is snowden?"

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:28 pm 
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I thought it was interesting to learn that courts have consistently found that denying hormone therapy and other treatments to prisoners violates the Eighth Amendment, and I hope that Fort Leavenworth has to provide Manning with the therapy and accommodations she needs to best survive her time in prison.

Here is the ACLU position paper on it: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights-f ... -dysphoria

Quote:
This denial of treatment raises “serious constitutional concerns,” according to a statement issued by the American Civil Liberties Union. “Without the necessary treatment, gender dysphoria can cause severe psychological distress, including anxiety and suicide. When the government holds individuals in its custody, it must provide them with medically necessary care. The official policy of the Federal Bureau of Prisons and most state agencies is to provide medically necessary care for the treatment of gender dysphoria, and courts have consistently found that denying such care to prisoners based on blanket exclusions violates the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution.”


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ocess.html

And there are some terrible pieces that I am not going to link to talking about what Manning's life will be like in prison, and I really am just worried for her. She has been through an incredible difficult pre-trial incarceration, that clearly violated her rights and I pray that things get better for her. And that they grant her parole in 7 years. But I don't see that happening. I really do feel very sad for Manning. It feels like everyone has failed her.

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Yes, they'll obviously be very sensitive to the constitutional issues this raises.

Wait, no they won't.

Or else Manning wouldn't have been mistreated and wouldn't be in prison for 35 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:05 pm 
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rachell37 wrote:
The thing that's making me mental is that Chelsea asked to be referred to with female pronouns, and nearly every sentence in that second article, after stating that she wants to live as a woman, starts with "he".

I was listening to the news on BBC Radio, and after reporting the factual stuff, they did use "she" and "Chelsea" consistently.

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:26 pm 
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I just read this: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... xcuse.html and I'm scratching my head. I can see how Manning's timing might be seen as opportunistic (but also totally reasonable, since trans people can't openly serve in the military, so it makes sense to me that now that she's out of the military, she'd come out), but it seems trans people serving in the military are taking exception to Manning coming out because she's been convicted of spying? As in, she shouldn't have come out so publicly because her activities reflect badly on trans people? That seems really shitty if that's the actual message.

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:51 pm 
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I thought the court case outed her so she didn't really have a choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Well, I think there's criticism that it was somehow bad that her defense counsel used her trans status/struggles in its defense. I'm not sure how much it was brought up by the prosecution (which Manning obviously had no control over) vs. how much it was brought up by the defense (which Manning presumably had at least some control over).

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 Post subject: Re: Manning's court martial & etc.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:58 pm 
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The chat logs with Adrian Lamo were published back in July (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/0 ... lamo-logs/), and there's a lot in there about her gender identity and the shiitake the military has been putting her through, the information has been out there already. AFAIK they didn't ask her permission before publishing, they seem to just say that they figure it wouldn't really harm her by outing her.

With the Slate piece, they did talk to trans* folks from the military who wish to be allowed to serve in the military openly. Of course they can't side with Manning, or approve in any way, they have to look respectable to the military.

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