| Register  | FAQ  | Search | Login 
It is currently Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:34 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 222 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:17 am 
Offline
Vegan Since Before There Were Vegetables
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:30 pm
Posts: 10306
Location: Wolfville, Nova Scotia
GraciaKai wrote:
Do you guys ever think things like "Why can't we all just email or text?" "Don't call me, email is much better!"

I avoid my phone at all cost. Can't stand it when it rings, I don't really care who is calling. It irritates the shiitake out of me when people call me.

I hate the phone. And I have a friend/coworker who always calls and never texts (oh hey! It's the same friend who was pissed at me for cancelling plans!), and she leaves a message that sounds EXTREMELY serious asking that I call her right away. So I do, but it's always something super random that could have been conveyed as a one sentence text.

My limited cell phone minutes are reserved for my mum only.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:23 am 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:14 pm
Posts: 3473
Location: NJ/Philadelphia
I used to live on the phone as a teenager. But as an adult, forget it! I hate the phone. It's always on vibrate and I rarely get calls. But when I do I normally let it go to voice mail unless it's someone I know that NEVER calls me. Then I feel like they have a reason and I should pick up.

I hate it even more when it's things like the vet calling me back just to say everything is fine. Or the dentist reminding me about my appt. I think businesses need to upgrade to systems that allow for emailing and texting. Some do, my dentist emails me reminders but then they call too. The email was enough! I'm a together-ish adult who uses a calendar, I know when my appointment is...LEAVE ME ALONE!

_________________
"Gnome kicking says a lot a man's character." - Babbette


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:36 am 
Offline
I Wanna Dip My Balls In It
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 3358
Location: idontevenknowanymore
I disable the hell out of voicemail, because checking voicemail to me is somehow 1000000x worse than actually just taking the call. because then I have to actually call back, and THAT is the worst. because I HATE making calls.

_________________
reap/sow, risk/reward


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:41 am 
Offline
Tofu Pup

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:35 am
Posts: 7
Having a conversation with a stranger is such an intense and demanding experience for me, that sometimes I find myself looking at them, watching their mouth moving and hearing that they are talking, but I have no idea what they're saying because I'm so wrapped up in making sure to give them the appropriate social cues back.

Also, re: the shy vs. introverted vs. social anxiety thing, I'm definitely all 3. Introversion might be my least prominent of those 3 things, in fact, though it definitely still describes me well.

My office situation at work is that there are 4 of us with desks crammed into one room that might typically be a manager's office or something (yay for startups). So it's like, I guess slightly nicer than cubicles, but much less privacy. As soon as I realized this was gonna be the setup, I realized that I would never be friends with the other 3 people in my room. I'm not capable of taking apart the "have to"s of the situation from the "want to"s. If we were to hang out outside of work one day then I would find the next day at the office so awkward. Anyone else experience something like this at work?

Edit: and yes, I've been browsing these forums for many moons and created an account for the first time today so that I could post on this thread...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:49 am 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:14 pm
Posts: 3473
Location: NJ/Philadelphia
joshua wrote:
I disable the hell out of voicemail, because checking voicemail to me is somehow 1000000x worse than actually just taking the call. because then I have to actually call back, and THAT is the worst. because I HATE making calls.

YES!! I think this is why I hate phone calls sooooo much. I don't want to answer it so I let it go to voice mail but then I have to check the voice mail and then...I have to return the dreaded voice mail! The Horror!

_________________
"Gnome kicking says a lot a man's character." - Babbette


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:18 pm 
Offline
Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 4302
Location: 5 mi east of philly
yupitsvegan wrote:
Having a conversation with a stranger is such an intense and demanding experience for me, that sometimes I find myself looking at them, watching their mouth moving and hearing that they are talking, but I have no idea what they're saying because I'm so wrapped up in making sure to give them the appropriate social cues back.

this is why i often forget their name as soon as they say it. i think i need to ease in to social situations, so getting the important things out first messes me up.

_________________
I solved it for once and for all -- and for everyone -- by intentionally leaving behind some 9-lives burritos... ~Lorelei4mc
supercarrot.com, vegan groupony things, vegan coupons


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:24 pm 
Offline
Tofu Pup

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:35 am
Posts: 7
supercarrot wrote:
this is why i often forget their name as soon as they say it. i think i need to ease in to social situations, so getting the important things out first messes me up.


I'm really bad with names in that regard too. I'm far too worried about, you know, drowning in a sea of embarrassment, to remember something like a name..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:28 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:14 pm
Posts: 3473
Location: NJ/Philadelphia
yupitsvegan wrote:
My office situation at work is that there are 4 of us with desks crammed into one room that might typically be a manager's office or something (yay for startups). So it's like, I guess slightly nicer than cubicles, but much less privacy. As soon as I realized this was gonna be the setup, I realized that I would never be friends with the other 3 people in my room. I'm not capable of taking apart the "have to"s of the situation from the "want to"s. If we were to hang out outside of work one day then I would find the next day at the office so awkward. Anyone else experience something like this at work?

My office went from having all offices to having one huge open space with workstations. There are dividing panels, but for the most part we are all open and can yell at each other now. I don't mind it all. But we have one person here who hates it more than life. I was seriously surprised that he didn't quit and still hasn't. He works from the second he comes in to the second he leaves, he wants nothing to do with social interaction in the workplace at all. We could all be standing 2 feet from his desk having a loud conversation and he will not partake. Not only that but he has gotten so incredibly good at tuning us out that if we ask him to jump into the conversation he will have no idea what we are talking about. Like, hey P what do you think? And P will say about what? And we are all like really, you didn't hear any of that!? It's kind of amazing.

So you are not alone! When we worked in our old office and he had a private office we wouldn't see him for days at a time. Unless there was a meeting or one of us walked down to his office to say hello, we wouldn't talk to him at all. We even had a back entrance that only he would use. Keep in mind the front entrance was right off the elevators so he walked the long way around on purpose just so he wouldn't have to say good morning to anyone.

_________________
"Gnome kicking says a lot a man's character." - Babbette


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:37 pm 
Offline
Tofu Pup

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:35 am
Posts: 7
GraciaKai wrote:
But we have one person here who hates it more than life. I was seriously surprised that he didn't quit and still hasn't. He works from the second he comes in to the second he leaves, he wants nothing to do with social interaction in the workplace at all. We could all be standing 2 feet from his desk having a loud conversation and he will not partake. Not only that but he has gotten so incredibly good at tuning us out that if we ask him to jump into the conversation he will have no idea what we are talking about. Like, hey P what do you think? And P will say about what? And we are all like really, you didn't hear any of that!? It's kind of amazing.


I'm glad you don't mind that setup, it sounds like it might stress me out a good deal. That's funny though, one of the other people in my room is a guy exactly like that (with the tuning out all conversation thing). Then there's me, who only handles it slightly better than he does, another girl who wants to be best friends and talk all the time and I still don't know how to best deal with her shiitake, and the 4th person in my room is... my immediate supervisor. Yep, it's the worst. This talkative chick actually has a decent amount in common with me though i'm not her biggest fan for certain reasons. We both bike to work and I started going to a different part of the building to shower and change in the mornings because I felt sooo so awkward running into her there every day.

Actually that made me sound a lot like P that you described...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:37 pm 
Offline
Married to the wolfman
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 5950
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
I'm notorious in my family for rarely answering my phone (in fact, I don't know what it sounds like when it rings-- it's always either on silent or vibrate) but I don't know that it's anything to do with introversion so much as just liking to communicate on my own terms, when I have the time and energy for it.

One of the things I love about where I work right now is that I have an office. It has a door. I share it with one other person, which is the sort of thing that could really bother me depending on the person, but the guy I share it with is pretty much my ideal officemate-- he rarely speaks to me beyond saying hello in the morning, and never tries to make conversation about non-work things. He is like the least social-energy-expenditure-demanding person I've ever met.

_________________
"Hummus; a gentleman's vice." -- Mars

coldandsleepy cooks, THE BLOG!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:41 pm 
Offline
Bought a used copy of Natural Harvest
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 6127
Location: Land of Maple and Beavers
Oh man, I identify with your co-worker, GraciaKai. At my last job, I went from having a cubicle with 4 walls and a door to a completely open concept space. I hated it more than I have ever hated anything. It actually ruined my enjoyment of my job; I went from LOVING my job to loathing going in every day. I had to be with people ALL DAY, instead of on my own terms, being able to hide in my cube when I wanted to. And people would just shout stuff out all day at each other, and there was no reprieve from it. Worst ever.

ETA: And these were with people I LIKED! Well, did like. I find I'll hate just about anybody if I'm forced to be in close contact with them with no break for long periods of time.

_________________
Did you notice the slight feeling of panic at the words "Chicken Basin Street"? Like someone was walking over your grave? Try not to remember. We must never remember. - mumbles
Is this about devilberries and nazifruit again? - footface


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:44 pm 
Offline
Mispronounces Daiya
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: Berlin
I am also shy and antisocial at times, but that varies. Even when I'm not shy and antisocial and feeling really awesome (doesn't happen often), I'll still be introverted. I'll be feeling really good and meet up with 2-3 people in one week and after that I needs weeks where I'm alone and/or only seeing my boyfriend.

_________________
http://www.veganinberlin.com
"Money ain't got no owners, only spenders." - Omar


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:44 pm 
Offline
Dying from Nooch Lung
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:30 pm
Posts: 3222
Location: Almost Boston
Oh gosh, I hate phones so much. I haven't had a cell phone for a couple of months now, and I was saving up for a new one, but not having a phone is so nice! (We do have a landline, but if I don't answer that, people just assume I'm not home.) Home is my bubble of alone-ness, and I always kind of felt like phone calls were intruding on that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:48 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:14 pm
Posts: 3473
Location: NJ/Philadelphia
paprikapapaya wrote:
Oh man, I identify with your co-worker, GraciaKai. At my last job, I went from having a cubicle with 4 walls and a door to a completely open concept space. I hated it more than I have ever hated anything. It actually ruined my enjoyment of my job; I went from LOVING my job to loathing going in every day. I had to be with people ALL DAY, instead of on my own terms, being able to hide in my cube when I wanted to. And people would just shout stuff out all day at each other, and there was no reprieve from it. Worst ever.

ETA: And these were with people I LIKED! Well, did like. I find I'll hate just about anybody if I'm forced to be in close contact with them with no break for long periods of time.

I feel bad for him. We have three offices now, one is the owners, one is for our Sr. Tech Director, and one is empty in case we get another Sr. person. He wants that empty office so bad! He sits right next to the most bubbly chipper outgoing person of all time too. We joke about it a lot, and he is a really good sport. But man I know he hates us deep down inside.

PP, you might hate me if we ever meet in person. I kind of want to smother you with love and kisses, cause you are just so damn cute! I'm sure that's how everyone who meets you feels about you :o)

_________________
"Gnome kicking says a lot a man's character." - Babbette


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:09 pm 
Offline
Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 4302
Location: 5 mi east of philly
my favorite jobs have been data entry (where we did have an open plan, but i put on my earphones, and plugged away. if anyone needed to speak to me, they'd wave their hands or walk up to me. that was nice, because they knew i couldn't hear what they were saying, so they didn't get frustrated from having to repeat themselves.) and working in a greenhouse. the best parts were when we were planting the plugs into pots, and mornings where i'd have a few hours to water everything. later in the season, i'd have to speak to customers about the plants, but that wasn't too big of a deal. they never needed me to explain too many complicated things, and the shady stuff were placed in areas of shade, so it was pretty straightforward, and they could be mostly on their own. (i did have to run the register from time to time, and i'm pretty good at putting on a cheerful face, but that reduces my brainpower for remembering codes, and i couldn't really look up codes with a customer standing there. i do MUCH better with old school cash registers. these "newfangled" computer based registers with codes are horrifying. i bet they've gotten better since then with touchscreens and all, but that middle period, AAAHH!)

_________________
I solved it for once and for all -- and for everyone -- by intentionally leaving behind some 9-lives burritos... ~Lorelei4mc
supercarrot.com, vegan groupony things, vegan coupons


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:57 pm 
Offline
Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 4251
Location: Toronto, ON
My office is completely open concept, no cubicle walls or anything, and I HATE it. I get so much less work done because people are either talk to me, or talking to others very loudly and I can't concentrate, etc etc.

_________________
I like my bagels like I like my men - big and covered with earth balance & nooch. - Bunniee

http://veganforthewin.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:07 pm 
Offline
Asked Santa for a pony
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3082
Location: Portland
There are things I like about an open concept office with the right people, but all it takes is one person to completely ruin it.

_________________
The Noochy Noodle, my personal obsession with discovering the worlds greatest vegan mac and cheeze


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:19 pm 
Offline
Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 4251
Location: Toronto, ON
Also, it's cold and flu season so everyone is sitting around loudly sniffling. USE KLEENEX AND BLOW YOUR NOSE. Also, they sneeze and cough all over the place, and of course they don't cover their mouth.

_________________
I like my bagels like I like my men - big and covered with earth balance & nooch. - Bunniee

http://veganforthewin.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:19 pm 
Offline
Tofu Pup

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:35 am
Posts: 7
supercarrot wrote:
my favorite jobs have been data entry...


That's the life of an introvert. How much we like a job depends pretty heavily on the amount and type of interaction needed with people...

interestingly, one of my favorite jobs was when I worked as a cashier at a Cosi. I kind of liked talking to people when I was the cashier because they had to be really genuinely nice if they actually asked me about my life while paying for their food. Plus there was plenty of transaction-related dialogue to fall back to when the conversation died. Also, with the regular customers, they liked me a lot because I always remembered their orders and they gained respect for me over time and that made me feel more comfortable around them, but we didn't have to talk much when I first met them. An introvert's dream :O


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:27 pm 
Offline
Invented Vegan Meringue
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:14 pm
Posts: 3473
Location: NJ/Philadelphia
I cant stand solitude when I'm working, I will literally fall asleep. I'm not sure if this is learned because I worked in retail for so many years with loud music pumping and tons of people interaction or if I just need all of that to work happy. But I hate the silence of an office. Our is so dead quiet right now that I can hear the air blowing from the ceiling vents. It makes the days seem so much longer to me. The constant interaction of retail and being on your feet all day is exhausting, but at least the time passes quicker. I kind of thrive on busy work atmospheres though. It makes me feel like I'm doing something worth my time and effort! Sitting at a desk all day in dead silence makes me miserable. Even with headphones on I hate it.

_________________
"Gnome kicking says a lot a man's character." - Babbette


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:40 pm 
Offline
Dead by dawn
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:54 pm
Posts: 7880
Location: Seattle
I always sort of thought I was an introvert. In some ways those "care and feeding" memes helped me realize that I am closer to the center of the spectrum than I thought because they got me thinking about my reactions to different scenarios. I am mildly shy... like I do just fine one-on-one with someone I don't know well, but not as well in groups unless I know at least a few of the people pretty well. I do definitely need alone time to recharge and I totally don't get the "go out somewhere crowded to blow off steam and gain energy from being around a ton of people." However, I do sometimes think the more the merrier and get disappointed when dinner for 8 turns into dinner for 3, assuming that all the people who were supposed to come are people I like. I don't know... I do feel like the world values extroverts more and that I don't measure up in that respect because I am not super outgoing.

_________________
facebook
"The PPK: Come for the pie; stay for the croissants." - tinglepants!
"Cockblocked by Richard Branson- again!" - Erika Soyf*cker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:55 pm 
Offline
Tofu Pup

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:35 am
Posts: 7
what are people's go-to conversation topics when finding themselves unknowingly (or knowingly, i guess) having to have an extended conversation with a stranger?

you know, once you found out where they're from and what they do.

i find that i really wanna find out people's hobbies but i end up being like "so, what are your hobbies?" and sounding like a kindergarten teacher and they give me a weird look.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:00 pm 
Offline
Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan Vegan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 4302
Location: 5 mi east of philly
you could be like "do you have any hobbies? i like to cook and garden" that way you got yours out of the way first, and so they're not embarrassed if they have something they're afraid of feeling dumb for. (i always feel weird if they ask "what do you do for fun?" because it seems like they're always asking for suggestions of what to do nearby, and obvi, i'm not the best person to ask that.)

_________________
I solved it for once and for all -- and for everyone -- by intentionally leaving behind some 9-lives burritos... ~Lorelei4mc
supercarrot.com, vegan groupony things, vegan coupons


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:00 pm 
Offline
Asked Santa for a pony
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3082
Location: Portland
yupitsvegan wrote:
what are people's go-to conversation topics when finding themselves unknowingly (or knowingly, i guess) having to have an extended conversation with a stranger?

you know, once you found out where they're from and what they do.

i find that i really wanna find out people's hobbies but i end up being like "so, what are your hobbies?" and sounding like a kindergarten teacher and they give me a weird look.

The first thing I ask people is "what do you do for fun?" because many people can talk for a really long time about their passions and interests, and you'll find out right off the bat if you have any hobbies or pastimes in common with that person.

I usually avoid asking what people do for income. It's boring and often just makes people feel bad or awkward.

_________________
The Noochy Noodle, my personal obsession with discovering the worlds greatest vegan mac and cheeze


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Introvert's Support Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:01 pm 
Offline
Bought a used copy of Natural Harvest
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 6127
Location: Land of Maple and Beavers
GraciaKai wrote:
paprikapapaya wrote:
Oh man, I identify with your co-worker, GraciaKai. At my last job, I went from having a cubicle with 4 walls and a door to a completely open concept space. I hated it more than I have ever hated anything. It actually ruined my enjoyment of my job; I went from LOVING my job to loathing going in every day. I had to be with people ALL DAY, instead of on my own terms, being able to hide in my cube when I wanted to. And people would just shout stuff out all day at each other, and there was no reprieve from it. Worst ever.

ETA: And these were with people I LIKED! Well, did like. I find I'll hate just about anybody if I'm forced to be in close contact with them with no break for long periods of time.

I feel bad for him. We have three offices now, one is the owners, one is for our Sr. Tech Director, and one is empty in case we get another Sr. person. He wants that empty office so bad! He sits right next to the most bubbly chipper outgoing person of all time too. We joke about it a lot, and he is a really good sport. But man I know he hates us deep down inside.

PP, you might hate me if we ever meet in person. I kind of want to smother you with love and kisses, cause you are just so damn cute! I'm sure that's how everyone who meets you feels about you :o)


heehee, I'd not object to that at all! :) I'm a pretty affectionate person, and I love hugs!

But yeah, open concept offices just...are terrible for me. There's few people I can spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week looking at the back of their heads and hearing them chew their snacks and not want to throttle. I loooooved having my own space, where I could burrow down and do my work in peace and quiet, both noise-level-wise and visually. I get disturbed by visual distractions as much as aural ones, I think! But then, my colleagues and I could congregate around this centre hub we had, have a chat or a meeting, and then go off to our respective spots again. Ahhhh I miss that. In the open concept space, I would go home and just be BUZZING from so much stimuli and I'd have no mental energy left for anything.

_________________
Did you notice the slight feeling of panic at the words "Chicken Basin Street"? Like someone was walking over your grave? Try not to remember. We must never remember. - mumbles
Is this about devilberries and nazifruit again? - footface


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 222 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Template made by DEVPPL/ThatBigForum and fancied up by What Cheer