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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:19 pm 
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I think it depends which RA treatments you are taking. Shingles/chicken pox can have serious complications if you're on methotrexate, but not so much if you're on a different combo or biologics. (And welcome to the creaky knees club!)

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:47 pm 
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torque wrote:
i am so sorry, i didn't see this before.
neither of my kids had any issues with the shot itself. we had all sorts of other issues, soreness or whatever just wasn't even on the radar.
i am so glad to hear your husband is on board. he did have a point, which i hesitate to even bring up, it is made with mouse DNA. but let's be honest here, everything from aspirin to cardiac catheterization involves large scale animal use and abuse. your kid getting sick is not going to do anything to change it. letting her grow up with strong feelings about eliminating or reducing animal testing might change it. /soapbox

it is CRAZY expensive and they don't want to waste a single vial (about US$800/vial for us when we did it, and my kid is 13 now, so....). It will have to be kept cool, they need to check the kid's weight because at some point the shots will require more than one vial due to weight, etc. Hope your ped is close to your home and not a PITA to get to.


no worries! she in theory will get her first dose tuesday. hopefully it will go ok. she's been better with her vax for the 4 and 6 month ones. 2 months was BAD! but the last couple times have been just mild reactions.
the dr office is only 5 mins down the road so it's not too big a deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:34 am 
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for those of you who have gotten the flu shot for your young kids how many doses did they get the first time? was it one or two?
my mom is a nurse and led me to believe Charlotte will get 2 doses but at the pedi appt the other day when we were working out all the times i had to come back for all her shots there was no mention of a second flu dose and i forgot to ask because i was thinking more about getting the RSV shot done.

but looking online it seems like the 2 doses are done a month apart??? so maybe that's why we didnt talk about it and when we get the first dose they will be like "oh hai btw you need ANOTHER appt"

so happy i chose to go with my own dr for her pediatrician since it's literaly right down the road.....

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:29 pm 
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My children always had two doses. My youngest is now twelve though..so although I don't think it has changed, it has been a little while.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:17 pm 
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Yeah, all 3 of mine had two doses about a month apart when they got them for the first time. My twins are 8.5 months old, so that was still true this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Sven's first year he had a single dose, but this year he needed to come back a month later for a booster. Not sure why.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:59 pm 
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I was rethinking thus scenario and I'm guessing they won't have me make an appt for the 2nd dose til after the first one is administered so that's why they didn't bring it up. I just found it strange they didn't tell me it's 2 doses they just said "is she gonna get the flu shot"

Yay for FOUR trips for shots!!! Yippeeee! My baby is a pin cushion!! ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:57 pm 
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Someone here a while ago linked to an article that talked about how the limit for how many vaccines at once the body can "handle" was something like 10,000. Anyone know where that article was? I couldn't find it.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:31 pm 
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Probably one of mine, and a link to an interview with Paul Offit.

I can't find the actual interview, but a web search for "paul offit 10000 vaccines" gets links from lots of huffy anti-vaxers. Probably the original source is overwhelmed by that stuff since I couldn't find it either...

There are a bunch of interesting interviews with him on NPR and Frontline that are easily findable if you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:04 am 
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coldandsleepy wrote:
solipsistnation wrote:
refinnej wrote:
I'm not at all convinced of the vaccine/autism link (in previously studied or not yet studied ways), but I am concerned with thimerosal still in some vaccines along with other ingredients like eggs, etc. Giving 5 vaccines at once to an infant and vaccinating for some things that seems unnecessary (like the chicken pox) raise warning flags in my mind too. I'm not a zealot, but I do want to be discerning. :) Aubade got it on the head for me...the feeling "unsure" is killer. That I might contribute (either by vaccinating or not) to some medical trouble for my child...urgh. I'm already flummoxed enough about whether or not I can eat peanuts while I'm pregnant! :D


The last time this came around, I found a reference from somebody plausible (either an immunologist or a pediatrician, or some combination) who had sat down and done some research in the relevant literature about giving multiple vaccinations at once and had determined that a healthy immune system (that is, an immune system that isn't compromised by something like HIV) can handle anywhere up to 10,000 infections at once without problems. Your immune system is constantly working, dealing with minor infections- 2 or 3 vaccines at once might not be totally pleasant for the kid getting jabbed, but isn't threatening if they're reasonably healthy. Either way, spacing them out and skipping the dubious ones (chicken pox) is pretty understandable.

I believe thimerosal is no longer used anywhere, but that might just be in the US...


I think you're talking about Paul Offit, as quoted in this article in Wired.

Thimerosal is still in some vaccines according to this report by the FDA-- however, with the exception of one brand of DTaP (has trace amounts) and some influenza vaccines, it's not in any of the vaccines that children routinely get.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:17 am 
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Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Measles

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/12/health/worst-measles-year/index.html?c=&page=1

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:10 am 
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This article is all over my FB - basically they're saying that the lead developers of the HPV vaccine are admitting that (1) the immunity doesn't last as long as promised, so that if you're vaccinating girls at 11 then the immunity is only valuable if it can last at least 15 years and its unclear that this is the case, (2) given that the side effects can be severe in a small number of cases, it outweighs the benefits of protection because (a) immunity doesn't last long enough, (b) it only protects against 4 of 40 strains of HPV and (c) the cervical cancer risk has been overstated and can for the most part be protected against through regular pap screenings.
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/lead-dev ... cam_012014

I don't want to just dismiss it because the source (The Daily Sheeple) is ridiculous, and was wondering if someone could help me parse this better.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:35 pm 
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I saw that one too (of course...). Yeah, the site doesn't lead one to believe much of what's on there.

There's this, which isn't quite the same thing:

http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/gardasil.asp

Here's another: http://jezebel.com/ignore-this-dumb-fac ... 1463990764
They quote this:

Quote:
That article grossly misrepresents what Dr. Harper actually said. Dr. Harper has expressed concerns such as how long protection from vaccines such as Gardasil will last (which is not a safety issue, but rather an issue of whether the expected results of an HPV immunization program will justify the financial costs), and whether the marketing of Gardasil might lead some women to avoid taking other STD-preventing precautions, but she has never said that Gardasil "doesn't work," "wasn't tested," or was "dangerous."


...which does seem to cover it. So there you go. Like many (most. all.) facebook antivax memes, it's basically lies.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:47 pm 
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Well yes, it only covers 4 strains of hpv, but those strains are responsible for 75% of cervical cancer cases and 90% of genital warts cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:13 pm 
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Yeah. Of all the anti-vax arguments, the one where they claim that since it's not 100% effective you just basically shouldn't bother is the most irritating. I think this is because it actually acknowledges that they _are_ effective, while still refusing them because, I dunno, perfectionism?

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:14 pm 
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Personally, I would put the responsibility for proving their case on those who link to sites like that one & Natural frickin' News. People who are devoted to believing that vaccines are evil are not going to be swayed by a Facebook post.

Given that the only author listed is this charming site: http://www.secretsofthefed.com/ I think you can dismiss it out of hand. It's not a reliable news site for many reasons. Do they also believe that Sandy Hook is a elaborate government hoax? Secrets of the Fed does. The Daily Sheeple does want you to know that cat litter is a valuable tool for those living the prepper lifestyle ...

I am sort of surprised that you know so many people with radical libertarian/end of the world views... :)
(Unless they just cherry picked an article out to suit their worldview while dismissing the need to store cat litter to prepare for some sort of end of the world event.)

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:31 pm 
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Thanks everyone for the input!

Vantine, I completely agree with you, but part of the reason why I posted it here, is because I have just seen it from so many people who are generally amenable to reasoning (I definitely wouldn't characterize them as radical, libertarian end of the world people!) and I wanted to be able to give those people some perspective. We've posted about this before, but there are reasonable people who do worry about vaccines - especially ones like the HPV one that hasn't been around for very long. And there are plenty of people who prey on those fears. I think its useful to give those reasonable people some context, rather than just leave them to the anti-vax memes.

It really bothers me that there seems to be no sense of integrity with some of the media outlets like The Natural News, where it feels like they are publishing things that they must know are not accurate. It feels extremely irresponsible.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:35 pm 
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I think the four strains part is definitely true although like mooo said, there's a reason they picked those ones. And that's four more than no vaccine will protect against. Though it is disturbing that the frquency of strains breaks along racial lines: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/ne ... omen-study


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Natural News calls itself news, but it's just a place for cranks to spout off. Here's a writeup:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Oh thanks! That link took me to this very complete refutation of the meme I mentioned above: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/ ... -gardasil/

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Ah, Respectful Insolence. That's a decent blog.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:52 pm 
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One of the women who is in Holistic Moms, a group that is pretty anti-vax, just died of the flu. She was 8 months pregnant, got the flu and it turned into pneumonia. Its all horribly tragic and sad. I am not saying that the flu vaccine would have protected her or even that she didn't have the vaccine, but at very least it should be a reminder that the flu is a serious illness that can affect any of us.

You would think that the members of the group would then figure out that maybe the flu is actually a deadly disease worth protecting your family against, but no, its back to the same OMG how do I avoid having to give my child the flu shot for nursery schools this year posts..

This meme is going around right now:
Quote:
From the vaccine-manufacturer's insert for FluMist.
"Recently vaccinated children can transmit the live flu virus to "immunocompromised household contacts."
What about classmates?
School children who have been vaccinated with the live virus flu vaccine can spread the flu to others for up to 28 days after they are vaccinated. Children in school spend up to 7-8 hours together, five days a week, in close quarters. Don't parents have a right to know other children are contagious and are spreading the flu?
Shouldn't recently vaccinated children be made to stay out of the classroom until they are no longer contagious?


Which is just exaggerating a kernel of fact - the flu mist vaccine uses a live virus, so the person being vaccinated may have some virus shedding, which is only a danger to people who are in very close contact and happen to be immunocompromised - to the absurd "recently vaccinated children should be made to stay out of school for a month to protect the unvaccinated children."

Even though medical professionals recommend that if you live with someone who is immunocompromised, you get the flu shot, to avoid giving your family member the flu.

I just don't get this weird twisted inability to follow simple reasoning, and the need to twist everything into making vaccines seem so dangerous. I understand wanting to do your research and making an informed decision for your family, but twisting the truth and spreading dangerous misinformation isn't helping people make the best choices for their families.

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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:04 pm 
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Tofulish, that is so sad about that mom.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we talk about vaccinations here?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:17 pm 
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Its horribly tragic. I just wish that more of the anti-vaxers could realize that the flu is a real danger, and not just to newborns and seniors. I feel like so many of the people I know are so committed to raising their children in the most healthy way they can, and they get so hyperalert that they focus in on one danger and blow it out of proportion and miss the forest for the trees.

I completely agree with doing your research and making informed choices that are the best for your family, but it is counterproductive to that end to then spread misinformation to further your agenda. If you're going to not get the flu mist because you're worried about putting immunocompromised people at risk because of virus shedding, that is counter-intuitive, because you're actually increasing the risk that you will get the flu and bring it home to them.

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