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 Post subject: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:10 am 
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Has anyone used Bach's Rescue Remedies to help de-stress animals or calm them during transition or help inhibit negative behaviors or for whatever reason? Have they worked?

I was thinking of ordering: Holly, Vine, Bach's Flower Rescue Remedy, Mimulus and Rock Rose (got these suggestions to try from a cat site). I'm never sure if the stuff I'm reading about these remedies are company plugs or genuine customer testimonials though.

I'm thinking of ordering some to help at least take the edge off of the intensity of my bullying cat but before I do, I'd like to hear if any PPKers have any experience or wisdom with using them. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:12 am 
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They helped our macaw a lot when we first got him home. He was a rescue and had so many psychological problems and wild mood swings. We think they really helped calm him. Our avian vet approved.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:14 am 
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I would try Feliway, which has actual science behind how it works--I think Bach's are homeopathic, which means the pet version is just water. (The human version is just alcohol)

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:14 am 
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I don't know about their pet remedies, but I know that people shopping at the HFS swear by the ones for humans. We sell the pet ones, too, but I haven't really seen anyone buying them (though our pet section is pretty underutilized in general). I think they're a pretty stand-up brand.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:18 am 
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I'll just quote Wikipedia here. They certainly don't seem harmful, anyway.

Quote:
The remedies contain a very small amount of flower material in a 50:50 solution of brandy and water. Because the remedies are extremely diluted they do not have a characteristic scent or taste of the plant. As this dilution process results in the statistical likelihood that little more than a single molecule may remain, it is claimed that the remedies contain "energetic" or "vibrational" nature of the flower and that this can be transmitted to the user.[3] Bach flower remedies are considered vibrational medicines, and rely on a concept of water memory. They are often labeled as homeopathic because they are extremely diluted in water, but are not true homeopathy as they do not follow other homeopathic precepts such as the law of similars or the belief that curative "powers" are enhanced by shaking and repeated diluting ("succussion").
Systematic reviews of clinical trials of Bach flower remedies have found no efficacy beyond a placebo effect.[3][4]


Amazon usually had good prices on Feliway.
http://www.amazon.com/Feliway-Plug-In-D ... ds=feliway

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:19 am 
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I always thought they had measurable amounts of diluted flower essences, not like the woo of homeopathic stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:19 am 
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I use Rescue Remedy for our reactive dog all the time. I put it in her water continually as well as give it as needed. For her, I feel like it works well. I also used Vine on one of my rats (I think it was meant for domineering animals), but I couldn't really tell a difference in that situation.

I use Rescue Remedy on myself and my human children too -- big fans here.


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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:22 am 
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strawberryrock wrote:
I would try Feliway, which has actual science behind how it works--I think Bach's are homeopathic, which means the pet version is just water. (The human version is just alcohol)

I have two Feliways going. (One in each room the kitties frequent). I was thinking of adding Bach's if other folks had experienced some success using them.

I'm also kind of hypersensitive to the sound of cats fighting. The sound of animals fighting (dogs, any animal) really bothers me on some primal level and I get really freaked out by it.

My understanding is that you order the same one for pets and for humans? Maybe I haven't researched enough though.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:24 am 
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That's what I did. I get the pet-specific Rescue Remedy but for the individual flower remedies I just got the human ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:28 am 
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I'd give it a try. If it is woo, I swear it's effective woo. We tried all sorts of stuff with the macaw, and a few drops in his water definitely seemed to take the edge off a bit. Anecdotally, enough other people have tried it with some success. It's not a miracle or anything, but, with him, it just seemed that over a week or two he eased up a bit on the mood swings.

I just tried to google and could tell it was going to give me a headache, but it looks like Bachs claims a 5x dilution, which seems pretty reasonable to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:34 am 
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Where do you guys order from? Is there a good website with a nice selection? I seem to have specific suggestions for flower remedies to try in my situation from this article I read on cat integration but I'll also get the straight up Rescue Remedy and order the pet specialty one.

Even if it's a placebo, it will placate me. I think I need a few drops on my tongue for stress relief. My NOIVES right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:40 pm 
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Well...
According to the Bach Centre these flower remedies work because
Quote:
Dr Bach used a metaphor to describe how the remedies work. He said, ‘they are able, like beautiful music, or any gloriously uplifting thing which gives us inspiration, to raise our very natures, and bring us nearer to our Souls: and by that very act, to bring us peace, and relieve our sufferings.’ Just as a beautiful sunset or a photograph can move us so that we feel more at peace, so taking a remedy uplifts us in a gentle way and helps us be the best we are.

There are many theories about the mechanism the remedies use to achieve this. Most believe the active ingredient in the remedies is a kind of energy or vibration that is transferred from the living flower to the water during the process of making the mother tinctures. Some believe the energy forms a pattern in the water; others talk of quantum mechanics and spiritual vibrations. Attempts to capture this energy have produced beautiful Kirlian photographs showing distinct patterns and colours for different remedies - but little hard research has been done. Any firm conclusions are just speculation.

The real proof that these flower energies exist, however, is the effect they have on people. Taking Mimulus when we are afraid is just a more specific form of the emotional reaction we feel when we listen to Beethoven or gaze up at the stars.


Flower energies and an emotional reaction...

Personally, I am not convinced that beech will get rid of intolerance but your mileage may vary.

If you believe in energy being transferred through vegetable glycerine and water it might indeed work. But I am not convinced that sort of faith healing will solve a real issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:11 pm 
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i think it depends on how severe the problem is.
before our crazy dog was on meds i tried the Rescue Remedy and it didnt do diddly squat.
but this is a dog that is so reactive that even on a drug cocktail he cant be within eyesite of another dog

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:25 pm 
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RR can be a great tool. For some animals it is good enough to show improvement. Others need extra aids.

The trainer I worked with was working with a super stressed Great Dane who needed RR, DAP and a thundershirt at the beginning of their sessions. Over time they were able to ease out the DAP and the thundershirt and the dog was able to do group classes with 6 other dogs and only had the RR.

Some animals it does diddly squat nothing!

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:16 pm 
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we did the rescue remedy before mar had to go to the vet - it did not calm him down. he was still a mess. i found routine when it came to meds and activity helped with problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:11 pm 
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I totally get the "I will try anything to make my cats stop fighting" feeling, though thankfully Feliway has vanquished nearly all of the cat-on-cat aggression under my roof. I think you have done a really excellent job introducing new kitty to resident kitty, and I know it is hard hearing cat fight noises. Try not to get too anxious- cats pick up on your anxiety, and it can heighten their stress and actually worsen the fighting. What you've said about their interactions so far is very promising- it may take a few months for them to really sort each other out, get used to each other's smell and behaviors. But what you've experienced so far with them makes me think that they will be good lifelong friends. Stay patient, keep as calm as you can, and give yourself a high five for being a great cat parent.

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:47 am 
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dakini wrote:
I totally get the "I will try anything to make my cats stop fighting" feeling, though thankfully Feliway has vanquished nearly all of the cat-on-cat aggression under my roof. I think you have done a really excellent job introducing new kitty to resident kitty, and I know it is hard hearing cat fight noises. Try not to get too anxious- cats pick up on your anxiety, and it can heighten their stress and actually worsen the fighting. What you've said about their interactions so far is very promising- it may take a few months for them to really sort each other out, get used to each other's smell and behaviors. But what you've experienced so far with them makes me think that they will be good lifelong friends. Stay patient, keep as calm as you can, and give yourself a high five for being a great cat parent.

<3. Thanks. I really needed to hear that! <3

I feel much better today about things today and yesterday. Maybe the Feliways are kicking in? (They've been plugged in around ten days now). Or maybe the kitties are just getting more used to each other (but not nearly all the way there yet). But they're becoming less aware of each other--that's the point for me when cats are pretty much going to successfully integrate--when you can get them to the point that they can be indifferent to each other's presence. I did lots of short time-togethers yesterday--about eight or ten throughout the day ranging anywhere from three minutes to twenty minutes long and tried to do most of them when Lovey was lower-energy (in the afternoon/evening, as opposed to early morning and late night when he's intense and hyper and his energy can be overwhelming). They're meowing at each other now through the door in a communicative way. The kitten touched Lovey's nose yesterday with hers. Lovey's spending more time looking out the window again and doing his own thang, instead of always sitting at the door pawing and whining for the kitty. Sometimes, I even open the door to Goji's room and Lovey stays where he is--for a minute or two, anyway--before coming to investigate. Three days ago, he would have charged for the door inside of two seconds. He still has to pin her soon after he sees her--at least in the morning--but no catfight noises today.

I haven't ordered any remedies because I don't really see a need yet. But I was just looking for some ideas to try if I got to the "I'll try anything" place with them.

Thanks for all the input, guys! <3

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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:05 am 
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lavawitch wrote:
I'd give it a try. If it is woo, I swear it's effective woo. We tried all sorts of stuff with the macaw, and a few drops in his water definitely seemed to take the edge off a bit. Anecdotally, enough other people have tried it with some success. It's not a miracle or anything, but, with him, it just seemed that over a week or two he eased up a bit on the mood swings.

I just tried to google and could tell it was going to give me a headache, but it looks like Bachs claims a 5x dilution, which seems pretty reasonable to me.


5x dilution does not mean 5x in the regular way, the x stands for 1/10:
5x = 1 part in 10, (diluted/repeated) 5 times.
So it's VERY diluted.
(just in case people don't know about what these X or C, LM or D stand for, it's not what I/most people would think when we read 5x....)
PS: I don't know why, but it took me a lot of effort to find this information, I mean, it's out there online, but it seemed like the companies weren't to eager to put up an easy to find explanation for the dilutions used?
Google suggestions: homeopathic dilutions (I found this the most helpful in finding information).

I don't think they cause any harm at all (it's basically water or other harmless substance) but I also think it's important for people to know what they're buying, you have to believe in the; the more we dilute it the better, method.
I do think that the animals can pick up if we're more calm. If we do something pro-active like giving them some drops of a remedy we believe to help, it makes us more calm, and I'm sure that helps the animal.


Anybody know of remedies that can be used for rabbits? I read about something for cats that's more science based, but are there any similar ones for rabbits?
There are a lot of these practitioners for these things here, also for animals, but I would like to know if there are other products on the market.
Some time ago I was close to booking my rabbit for a consultation which was what made me research a bit about bach and homeopathy in the first place. I wonder if there are are other kinds of products on the market.
I would like something to help when we go to the vet, since our new awesome vet is 1-1½ hour away with public transport and it can be a bit stressful.


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 Post subject: Re: Bach's Rescue Remedies...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:52 am 
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I'm not sure but I think the Bach's are used for other animals (besides cats and dogs). But I don't remember seeing any research or testimonials or whatever regarding their product for rabbits, so I'm unsure about BRR and it's purported effects on rabbits.

I myself never wound up getting any BRR as I am satisfied my cats integrated well and I see no need for them. Because they're cats, I do keep a Feliway diffuser going in the living room because they can get rambunctious but they are quite chummy, play well and snuggle together so I'm happy. But Feliway is specifically formulated for cats and I buy that at my vets. Maybe ask your vet for a recommendation?

Good luck with finding something to help soothe your bunnies! <3

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