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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Your experiences with those that are homeless don't encompass the totality of the reasons people become homeless. I don't know if you realize it but homelessness has jumped incredibly in the last year or two.

Some reasons people I have known have gone homeless:

Job loss for various reasons (economy, physical accident)
Kicked out of rental home losing home, rental money, etc (many of these have happened as a result of recent foreclosures although I think now some protections have been built in)
Mental illness which can result in inability to keep job or other issues
Parental unit death
Inability to pay for unforeseen bills (eg medical) along with living expenses

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
If you have never been one paycheck away from the streets, you are lucky and should spend some of your free time with Food Not Bombs.


I love you.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:28 pm 
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linanil wrote:
Your experiences with those that are homeless don't encompass the totality of the reasons people become homeless.

It was never my argument that my experiences encompassed the totality, merely that it's inaccurate to omit "bad decisions" from the list of possible causes for homelessness.


Last edited by BFH on Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:43 pm 
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And personally, I don't care if someone is homeless due to a 'bad decision'. We all have bad decisions. I think we need to have a bit of compassion and if someone is homeless, do what we can to help them out. I'm sure you can tell someone that they are homeless due to their own fault but that doesn't help them.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:46 pm 
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linanil wrote:
And personally, I don't care if someone is homeless due to a 'bad decision'. We all have bad decisions. I think we need to have a bit of compassion and if someone is homeless, do what we can to help them out. I'm sure you can tell someone that they are homeless due to their own fault but that doesn't help them.

On this, we agree. I'll repeat myself**: food and shelter should be a right, not a privilege.

**(And apparently, by "repeat myself," I mean: quote a salient point that somebody who is probably smarter than me probably coined long before I was born, then repeat that quote, again with no acknowledgment that it wasn't my own original idea.)


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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:52 am 
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Other than clicking your heels together and hoping for the housing fairy, how do you secure shelter? I have a whole library full of adults who would like an answer to that.
You actually think that poor parents want their children to be homeless? Your conjecture does not match up with those slippery things - facts. Inferring that parents who are unable to find shelter for their children are somehow lazy/selfish/neglectful reeks of privilege and a belief in a secularized prosperity gospel at worst and is unkind at best.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:23 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:19 am 
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Vantine wrote:
Other than clicking your heels together and hoping for the housing fairy...
<snip>
You actually think that poor parents want their children to be homeless?
<snip>
Inferring that parents who are unable to find shelter for their children are somehow lazy/selfish/neglectful...

No, my argument was not that one's homelessness or the homelessness of one's children is solved as easily as clicking one's heels, that all poor parents want their children to be homeless, or that all those for whom finding shelter is impossible are lazy, selfish, and/or neglectful (in fact, in a scenario where a person has exhausted any and all options as to locating shelter, and cannot find shelter because it is an absolute impossibility, that person should be recognized as quite hard-working, selfless, and diligent).

Our difference of opinion was only whether or not "bad decisions" are ever a reason for homelessness, though perhaps we also differ as to whether or not all parents (homeless or not) always do the best thing for themselves and their children. I would hope we agree that whatever the case may be, all people deserve food and shelter, and all people deserve help when food and shelter becomes scarce, difficult, or impossible.

Regardless, this is all a tangent stemming from my concern that privileged freegans are depleting the food source of homeless/street people. The argument against that seems to be that dumpsters are not where homeless/street people procure food. If that's true, then my original argument stands - dumpster diving and scraping plates are neither ethical nor unethical when considered for an individual's choice, I just happen to find it unsanitary, and therefore not advisable...

...notwithstanding the anecdote I heard about a bakery worker who would take pies one day past their expiration date, put them in a new garbage bag, seal that bag in another new garbage bag which was also then sealed in yet a third new garbage bag, and place the bag outside. Hearing that made me guess he was sympathetic to dumpster divers, and it's far from the image in my head of half-eaten chicken pot pies sandwiched between cigarette butts and yesterday's newspaper.

As it pertains to feeding one's children, I would understand if all other options were utterly impossible and giving my children the aforementioned half-a-pot-pie was the difference between life and death (this is where homelessness was brought in, because I can't conceive any other probable scenario where dumpster diving for one's children is inevitable), but my feeling is that in actuality, there are other options. The argument from others that homeless/street people don't procure food from dumpsters, if true, would seem to support my case, as does the argument that there are packages of well-wrapped pies from sympathetic bakery workers.

So, dumpster diving and scraping plates - do it if you want, but if you have children, give them different choices. That's my stand as to the ethics of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:30 am 
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BFH, it would be great it you could step back for a minute and realize that the reason you can't conceive of many of the reasons people become/remain homeless or the reasons they cannot adequately feed/house/clothe/whatever their children is because you are immensely privileged compared to the homeless/impoverished population. The fact that you cannot understand/conceive of what is a reality for millions of people is a sign of this, not a sign that those people are somehow behaving improperly or irresponsibly. Be grateful you are not in their position.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:41 am 
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jordanpattern, you misread or misunderstood: I can conceive of many reasons for homelessness and inadequate care for children, it's that Vantine and I disagree as to whether or not one of those reasons belongs on the list of possibilities.

What I wrote about not being able to conceive was the probability of any other scenario besides homelessness/street living (I'm taking others' cue to use "homeless" and "street" as interchangeable adjectives) where dumpster diving and/or scraping plates was the only option for people to feed their children, but the consensus thus far seems to be that dumpster diving and/or scraping plates is not an option taken by homeless/street people (with or without children).

Is there any situation (homelessness or otherwise) where dumpster diving and scraping plates is the only possible, probable, advisable, appropriate, and/or ethical strategy for procuring food for one's children? That's the discussion I'm interested in.


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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:48 am 
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It doesn't really matter if 1%, 5%, 10% or 95% of people that are homeless are due to their own poor decisions. That really isn't conducive to the matter that there are a lot of homeless people. You can certainly say that you believe everyone deserves shelter and food but then saying 'it might be their own fault though', isn't helpful.

As I said, we've all made bad decisions, judging people's shitty situation on the possibility that it might be their own fault isn't helpful.

And in terms of freeganism, we weren't talking about scraping plates but rather taking perfectly good food out of the trash. Are there instances where that is the only option for someone? Maybe not, but it seems like a viable option for those that are willing to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:52 am 
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BFH wrote:
jordanpattern, you misread or misunderstood: I can conceive of many reasons for homelessness and inadequate care for children, it's that Vantine and I disagree as to whether or not one of those reasons belongs on the list of possibilities.

What I wrote about not being able to conceive was the probability of any other scenario besides homelessness/street living (I'm taking others' cue to use "homeless" and "street" as interchangeable adjectives) where dumpster diving and/or scraping plates was the only option for people to feed their children, but the consensus thus far seems to be that dumpster diving and/or scraping plates is not an option taken by homeless/street people (with or without children).

Is there any situation (homelessness or otherwise) where dumpster diving and scraping plates is the only possible, probable, advisable, appropriate, and/or ethical strategy for procuring food for one's children? That's the discussion I'm interested in.


But why? Will answering that question help the homeless/impoverished population? Dissecting the moral implications of the extremely limited choices available to homeless people just smacks of judgment and - dare I mention it again? - privilege.

It's one (albeit annoying) thing to debate the ethical benefits of freeganism and veganism, but nitpicking the ethics of people with extremely limited choices seems pretty unproductive, and kind of mean spiritied.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:54 am 
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And I'm probably done but...

I grew up in a city where the only meal that many kids get are school lunches (and breakfast if offered). Their families may not be homeless but they may be in an apartment with no water, no electricity living with a bunch of other people. Food is scarce and money is even more scarce. Oh and yes, they may not be eligible for many programs or they may not be aware enough to seek them out due to language differences. So if those parents went dumpster diving to find unopened packages of food, why criticize them?

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:26 pm 
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linanil wrote:
It doesn't really matter... (it) isn't conducive to the matter that there are a lot of homeless people... judging people's... situation ...isn't helpful...

jordanpattern wrote:
But why? Will answering that question help the homeless/impoverished population?

I wasn't under the impression that the purpose of this thread was to solve the homelessness problem. I was operating on the premise that we were discussing the ethics of freeganism.

At the risk of repeating myself: the only reason homelessness came up was because I felt privileged freegans make it more difficult for homeless/street people to procure food, and because I can't conceive of any other probable scenario where dumpster diving and scraping plates is a strategy for procuring food for one's children, and even as it pertains to homelessness, I feel there are better options than dumpster diving or scraping plates to procure food for one's children. The consensus on the board might support that, because others have argued that homeless/street people do not turn to dumpsters or used plates for food (although that refutes my expressed concern about freegans depriving homeless/street people).
linanil wrote:
...we weren't talking about scraping plates...

But I was talking about scraping plates, as it is an aspect of freeganism, one I had questions about as it pertains to its ethics when children are involved.
linanil wrote:
...but rather taking perfectly good food out of the trash. Are there instances where that is the only option for someone? Maybe not, but it seems like a viable option for those that are willing to do it.

Again, at the risk of again repeating myself - I have no objection to individuals making this choice. I have an objection to parents feeding their children this way.
linanil wrote:
I grew up in a city where the only meal that many kids get are school lunches (and breakfast if offered). Their families may not be homeless but they may be in an apartment with no water, no electricity living with a bunch of other people. Food is scarce and money is even more scarce. Oh and yes, they may not be eligible for many programs or they may not be aware enough to seek them out due to language differences. So if those parents went dumpster diving to find unopened packages of food, why criticize them?

I don't know, why? Are you asking me if there is a reason to criticize them? (No, you're probably not.) Or wrongly assuming that I am criticizing people in a scenario where there are no other possibilities for food, and dumpster diving is the inevitable sole option? (I think, yes, you are wrongly assuming.)

I'm not criticizing such people in such a scenario. I'm merely questioning whether such a scenario is probable. So are you answering that, yes, it is? Or, no, there are not instances where it is the only viable option? (There are statements you made in the last couple posts which could be interpreted to answer either way.)


Last edited by BFH on Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:43 pm 
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Do I think it is unethical to feed children dumpstered food from grocery stores?
No

Is it probable that dumpstered food could be one of the few viable food sources for someone?
I think it is conjecture but it could be, it could not be. It doesn't really matter. I think it is a viable source of food for those that are willing to do it.

Do I think it is ok to eat food that has been eaten by someone else or sat in the trash?
Personally, I wouldn't do it and wouldn't encourage someone to do it but there may be some instance where someone makes the choice to do so. That is up to them.

Do I think it is unethical to tell homeless people that it is their fault that they are homeless?
Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:32 pm 
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linanil wrote:
Do I think it is unethical to tell homeless people that it is their fault that they are homeless?
Yes.

I think I agree (although neither of us asked the other this question). I don't know if "unethical" is the first word I'd choose, but we agree that blaming all homeless people for their homelessness is, at the very least, inaccurate (perhaps it is also unkind), and we agree that neither of us would tell a homeless person that it was their fault, even in instances where it was (well, maybe I might, if that homeless person were my parent, sibling, or other family member, or former friend or partner).

I think further discussion of homelessness issues would be better served in a new thread on that topic, both because it deserves more attention and because it's too big a topic to avoid derailing other discussions. That's merely my opinion - I'm not a moderator - and it's not a promise to participate in such a discussion. I tend to resent my statements being distorted to initiate debates I'm not interested in having and to assign me stances that I don't hold (directing this sentiment, and what follows, not to just any one individual on the board, of course - and this is just as much my personal policy in offline life, as well). I can forgive the first time my statements are misread or misunderstood, but much more than that, and I opt out. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to misrepresenting mine or having me engage you in a dialogue about it. (And if you're interested in commenting on that, go ahead, but it's not something I intend to discuss on the board any further, nor a conversation I intend to entertain via private messaging.)

As to the topic of the thread, I appreciate you clarifying your statements. I will attempt to do so (yet again) by responding.
linanil wrote:
Do I think it is unethical to feed children dumpstered food from grocery stores?
No

OK. I disagree.
I think it is unethical. I think that there are probably always other, better viable options. And if I am correct, and there are, then feeding your child dumpstered food (instead of those other, better viable options) is unethical.
linanil wrote:
Is it probable that dumpstered food could be one of the few viable food sources for someone?
I think it is conjecture but it could be, it could not be. It doesn't really matter. I think it is a viable source of food for those that are willing to do it.

OK. I disagree.
I don't think it's necessarily conjecture (I used that word before, but to describe a different stance of mine - reminding myself, as much as you, so there's no confusion). I think other, better viable options besides dumpstered food have been established and are known. I think it really does matter, at least when children are involved, because if I am correct and these other, better viable options have been established and are known, it's a bad and unethical decision to then feed your child dumpstered food instead (conceding, of course, that it's a different story if it's something like the aforementioned well-bagged pies and not the cigarette/newspaper/half-pot-pie scenario - but only if it's the best viable option, and I'm not sure it's probable that would ever be the case).
linanil wrote:
Do I think it is ok to eat food that has been eaten by someone else or sat in the trash?
Personally, I wouldn't do it and wouldn't encourage someone to do it but there may be some instance where someone makes the choice to do so. That is up to them.

I agree.

Having gone off on these tangents (which, at the risk of repeating myself, I am no longer interested in indulging), I would say, in my opinion, no, freeganism is not more ethical than veganism. There are too many ethical questions about aspects of freeganism, whereas I think veganism is pretty solid in terms of its ethics.


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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:47 pm 
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So if you believe feeding children food from a dumpster is unethical, give reasons why. I know people may feel it is 'icky' but especially in the case where you wouldn't otherwise know it came from a dumpster, I don't see any reason it'd be unethical.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:42 pm 
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This isn't a college entrance essay; tangets go where they will. Tell me what the "other, better, viable options" for feeding children when you are poor are. I know plenty of people who cannot afford to feed their children. The food fairy appears to be in South Beach with the housing fairy because dinner is not appearing under anyone's pillow.

You are not being judged - what you have written is being critqued. Putting an idea like homeless is caused by bad decisions out there invites critique.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:47 pm 
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linanil wrote:
So if you believe feeding children food from a dumpster is unethical, give reasons why.

If my assumption that I had stated my reasons was wrong, then I apologize. I was under the impression I had stated my reasons and that you understood them. I will repeat them.

From my first post on the thread, back on its third page:
Quote:
What I do find unethical is being a parent and feeding a child unsanitary food from a garbage bin or someone else's plate. While some may argue that a homeless parent feeding their children from trash would be better than the alternative of no food, I dispute the idea that "no food" is the only alternative

From my second post on the thread, back on its fourth page:
Quote:
I disagree with the choice and think there are better (and, wrapping, packaging, and banana peels notwithstanding, more sanitary) choices.

From my third post on the thread, also back on its fourth page:
Quote:
I think feeding our children food from the dumpster when we're able to provide food from other sources (whether paid for or donated) is unethical.

From this very page, the fifth on the thread...
Quote:
As it pertains to feeding one's children, I would understand if all other options were utterly impossible and giving my children the aforementioned half-a-pot-pie was the difference between life and death (this is where homelessness was brought in, because I can't conceive any other probable scenario where dumpster diving for one's children is inevitable), but my feeling is that in actuality, there are other options. The argument from others that homeless/street people don't procure food from dumpsters, if true, would seem to support my case, as does the argument that there are packages of well-wrapped pies from sympathetic bakery workers.

So, dumpster diving and scraping plates - do it if you want, but if you have children, give them different choices. That's my stand as to the ethics of it.

...and this...
Quote:
At the risk of repeating myself: the only reason homelessness came up was because I felt privileged freegans make it more difficult for homeless/street people to procure food, and because I can't conceive of any other probable scenario where dumpster diving and scraping plates is a strategy for procuring food for one's children, and even as it pertains to homelessness, I feel there are better options than dumpster diving or scraping plates to procure food for one's children. The consensus on the board might support that, because others have argued that homeless/street people do not turn to dumpsters or used plates for food (although that refutes my expressed concern about freegans depriving homeless/street people).

...and finally...
Quote:
I think it is unethical. I think that there are probably always other, better viable options. And if I am correct, and there are, then feeding your child dumpstered food (instead of those other, better viable options) is unethical... I think other, better viable options besides dumpstered food have been established and are known. I think it really does matter, at least when children are involved, because if I am correct and these other, better viable options have been established and are known, it's a bad and unethical decision to then feed your child dumpstered food instead (conceding, of course, that it's a different story if it's something like the aforementioned well-bagged pies and not the cigarette/newspaper/half-pot-pie scenario - but only if it's the best viable option, and I'm not sure it's probable that would ever be the case).

Any more confusion as to my reasoning?
linanil wrote:
I know people may feel it is 'icky' but especially in the case where you wouldn't otherwise know it came from a dumpster, I don't see any reason it'd be unethical.

My argument doesn't have to do with ickiness. If somebody cooks and/or prepares them in a way you dislike, even tofu or vegetables can be considered "icky."

My argument is that dumpstered food is unsanitary/insanitary and unhealthy (or perhaps - unsanitary/insanitary, therefore, unhealthy).

I guess you could argue that you think it's sanitary. I guess you could argue that you think whether or not it's sanitary is irrelevant to whether or not it's healthy. If those are your arguments, okay, but I disagree.

Also, as I stated previously, I think there are other better, viable options.

I am not certain I understand your scenario about someone not knowing whether or not the food came from a dumpster. I thought our discussion was whether or not it's ethical for a parent to knowingly feed their children food from a dumpster (the children knowing or not is irrelevant - it's not their ethics in question).


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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:56 pm 
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You say it is unsanitary but it isn't necessarily. If a bakery throws away bags of bagels, bread, or what not, why is it unsanitary? Who cares if there are other viable options. You say many times that you think it is unethical but you don't really give a reason for it being unethical if it has no sanitary issues.

In terms of something that is unsanitary (half eaten food), then still, what are the dangers?

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:00 pm 
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I just don't understand why we are thinking homeless people are feeding their children from dumpsters? There are so many programs that homeless people qualify for, like food stamps and WIC, that helps them feed their children. I'm trying to find stats on where homeless people get their food, but its's not something I can find facts on. But I'm guessing it would be about 1% of the homeless popluation that is homeless, a child, and has a parent feeding them dumpstered food. It's only about 11% in the Los Angeles continuum of care that even considered part of a family...adults and children. Then you have to imagine what percent of those are dumpster diving.

Why are we making these assumptions like it's happening a lot?


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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:05 pm 
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graffitipassion wrote:
I just don't understand why we are thinking homeless people are feeding their children from dumpsters? There are so many programs that homeless people qualify for, like food stamps and WIC, that helps them feed their children. I'm trying to find stats on where homeless people get their food, but its's not something I can find facts on. But I'm guessing it would be about 1% of the homeless popluation that is homeless, a child, and has a parent feeding them dumpstered food. It's only about 11% in the Los Angeles continuum of care that even considered part of a family...adults and children. Then you have to imagine what percent of those are dumpster diving.

Why are we making these assumptions like it's happening a lot?


we aren't; BFH is, i think, arguing that freeganing food and feeding it to your children is unethical when you have access to all of those other programs. like, if it isn't your only option, you shouldn't subject your children to food from a dumpster. i think.

please note than i am not taking a position on his argument, i'm only clarifying it to the best of my ability. i will add here that i have some things in the back of my refrigerator that it might be unethical to feed to a dumpster, so i will never question the sanitariness of anyone's food, ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Y'all are saying BFH is the bad guy because he said "homeless people deserve it because they suck and are bad," but then he keeps saying, "I didn't say that." He has said repeatedly that "bad decisions" are one reason why people become homeless. Perhaps "bad decisions" aren't as prevalent a factor in homelessness as he thinks they are. But to me, BFH isn't coming across as the evil, heartless caricature he's been portrayed... as.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Yeah, I wouldn't assume homeless people are dumpstering or dumpstering as their primary food source if they are.

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 Post subject: Re: Freeganism: Could it be more ethical than veganism?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:18 pm 
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Vantine wrote:
This isn't a college entrance essay; tangets go where they will.

My patience with people who distort my position and my threshold for repeating myself, also, go where they will.
Vantine wrote:
Tell me what the "other, better, viable options" for feeding children when you are poor are.

As previously stated, state assistance, food banks, soup kitchens, church groups, or Food Not Bombs.

Now, this part confuses me, because I understood the consensus to be that poor/homeless/street/etc. people do NOT procure food from dumpster diving and scraping plates. I was the only one who introduced such a premise, but was then convinced by others that this is not the case. So do you disagree with that? Do you argue that poor/homeless/street/etc. people are procuring their food from dumpster diving and scraping plates?
Vantine wrote:
I know plenty of people who cannot afford to feed their children. The food fairy appears to be in South Beach with the housing fairy because dinner is not appearing under anyone's pillow.

That is why I would argue that seeking state assistance, food banks, soup kitchens, church groups, or Food Not Bombs are better options than dumpster diving or scraping plates, but that dumpster diving and scraping plates are better options than waiting for fairies (though I haven't seen anyone besides you bring fairies up).
Vantine wrote:
You are not being judged - what you have written is being critqued.

But, apparently, not being read, or at least, not comprehended, or at worst, purposefully distorted.
Vantine wrote:
Putting an idea like homeless is caused by bad decisions out there invites critique.

Perhaps you missed the posts where this was covered. If not, well, you know my feelings on that.
linanil wrote:
You say it is unsanitary but it isn't necessarily. If a bakery throws away bags of bagels, bread, or what not, why is it unsanitary? Who cares if there are other viable options. You say many times that you think it is unethical but you don't really give a reason for it being unethical if it has no sanitary issues.

And that's where we split in opinion, because I don't think there are "no sanitary issues." But even in a scenario where there are no sanitary issues, I still think there are better options.
linanil wrote:
In terms of something that is unsanitary (half eaten food), then still, what are the dangers?

While you may disagree, I think unsanitary food is unhealthy.
graffitipassion wrote:
I just don't understand why we are thinking homeless people are feeding their children from dumpsters? There are so many programs that homeless people qualify for, like food stamps and WIC, that helps them feed their children. I'm trying to find stats on where homeless people get their food, but its's not something I can find facts on. But I'm guessing it would be about 1% of the homeless popluation that is homeless, a child, and has a parent feeding them dumpstered food. It's only about 11% in the Los Angeles continuum of care that even considered part of a family...adults and children. Then you have to imagine what percent of those are dumpster diving.

Why are we making these assumptions like it's happening a lot?

linanil wrote:
Yeah, I wouldn't assume homeless people are dumpstering or dumpstering as their primary food source if they are.


I'm the only one who made that assumption, but then it was refuted, although Vantine might be making the same assumption.

acr wrote:
BFH is, i think, arguing that freeganing food and feeding it to your children is unethical when you have access to all of those other programs. like, if it isn't your only option, you shouldn't subject your children to food from a dumpster. i think.

You got it.

FootFace wrote:
Y'all are saying BFH is the bad guy because he said "homeless people deserve it because they suck and are bad," but then he keeps saying, "I didn't say that." He has said repeatedly that "bad decisions" are one reason why people become homeless. Perhaps "bad decisions" aren't as prevalent a factor in homelessness as he thinks they are. But to me, BFH isn't coming across as the evil, heartless caricature he's been portrayed... as.

I'm a bad guy, but yes, not for anything to do with the homeless. Only because it takes so much strength to try to stop myself from unleashing snarky comments about people's reading comprehension (and then I fail with passive aggressive comments like this).


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